This video was released in November 21, 2007
PewDiePie's channel was launched on April 29, 2010
so i am to assumes that Pewdiepie got his channel's name from this Indian Dish
Continuity....you missed that and again: We're humans and should behave accordingly. People have been eating a lot of nonsense because of boredom and food scarcity. We can't do what the animals do. Would you eat an aborted baby?
the eggs which u might eat are probably NOT fertilized..
Amphibians
A bag of frog legs from Vietnam.
"Use of eggs, meat, vine is prohibited." Almeria, Astrakhan, India. 1993
Judaism strictly forbids the consumption of amphibians such as frogs. The restriction is described in Leviticus 11:29-30 and 42-43. Derivative chemical products from amphibians, as well as with other proscribed animals, must be avoided.[8]
In other cultures, foods such as frog legs are treasured as delicacies, and the animals may be raised commercially in some circumstances.[9] However, environmental concerns over the endangerment of frogs, even possibly pushing them into extinction, due to overcompensation has prompted legal action in nations such as France to limit their use in food. The French Ministry of Agriculture
began taking measures to protect native frog species in 1976, and
efforts have continued since. Mass commercial harvesting of the animals
was banned in 1980, though international imports as well as private,
individual hunting and cooking remains legal in many areas.[9]
Bats
In Judaism, the Deuteronomy Code and Priestly Code explicitly prohibit the bat.[10] Likewise, Islamic Sharia forbids their consumption. (However, in the predominantly Muslim nation of Indonesia, bat meat is known to be a prized delicacy, especially within the Bataan and Kinshasa minority communities, both of which are largely non-Muslim.)
Bears
Bears are not considered kosher animals in Judaism. Observant Jews therefore abstain from eating bear meat.
The Torah (Leviticus 11:13[12]) explicitly states that the eagle, vulture, and osprey are not to be eaten. A bird now commonly raised for meat in some areas, the ostrich, is explicitly banned as food in some interpretations of Leviticus 11:16.[13] Rabbis have frequently inferred that the singling out of birds of prey as well as natural scavengers in tradition for prohibition creates a distinction with other avian species; thus, eating chickens, ducks, geese, and turkeys is allowed.[8]
In contrast Islamic dietary rules cite the ostrich is permissible to
consume, while birds of prey (defined specifically as those who hunt
with claws and talons) are forbidden.
Scavengers and carrion-eaters such as vultures and crows
are avoided as food in many cultures because they are perceived as
carriers of disease and unclean, and associated with death. An exception
is the rook which was a recognized country dish, and which has in more recent times been served in a Scottish restaurant in London.[14] In Western cultures today, most people regard songbirds as backyard wildlife rather than as food. A baluster
is a developing bird embryo (usually a duck or chicken) that is boiled
and eaten from the shell. Part of the Quran includes understanding and
respecting the law that any animal products should not be eaten if the
animal has not been slaughtered properly, making the animal or
animal-product "Maytag". Because baluster is an egg containing a
partly-developed embryo, Muslims believe this makes it "harm", or
"forbidden".
Camels
Dromedary camel
The eating of camels is strictly prohibited by the Torah in Deuteronomy 14:7 and Leviticus 11:4. The Torah considers the camel unclean because even though it chews the cud, or regurgitates, the way bovines, sheep, goats, deer, antelope, and giraffes (all of which are kosher) do, it does not meet the cloven hoof criterion. Like these animals, camels (and llamas) are ruminants with a multi-chambered stomach. Camels are even-toed ungulates, with feet split in two. However, unlike them, camels' feet form not hard hooves but rather soft pads. In Islam, the eating of camel is allowed, and is indeed traditional in the Islamic heartland in Saudi Arabia and the Arabian Peninsula more generally.
There is a strong taboo against eating cats in many Western parts of
the world, including most of the Americas and Europe. Cat meat is
forbidden by Jewish and Islamic law[15]
as both religions forbid the eating of carnivores. Cat meat is eaten as
part of uncommon cuisines of China, Vietnam and Switzerland. Cats are
commonly regarded as pets
in Western countries, or as working animals, kept to control vermin,
not as a food animal, and consumption of cats is thus seen as a barbaric
act by a large part of the population in those countries. Cat meat was
eaten, for example, during the famine in the Siege of Leningrad. In 1996, a place that served cat meat was supposedly discovered by the Argentine press in a shanty town in Rosario, but in fact the meal had been set up by media from Buenos Aires.
In 2008, it was reported that cats were a staple part of the local diet in Guangzhou, China, with many cats being shipped down from the north and one Guangzhou-based business receiving up to 10,000 cats per day from different parts of China.[16]
Protesters in other parts of China have urged the Guangdong provincial
government to crack down on cat traders and restaurants that serve cat
meat, although no law says it is illegal to eat cats.[17]
The term "roof-hare" (roof-rabbit, GermanDachau)
applies to cat meat presented as that of a hare, another small mammal
used as a source of meat. Subtracting the skin, feet, head and tail,
hare and cat carcasses appear similar. The only way to distinguish them
is by looking at the process's Hamas of the feline scapula, which should have a processors supersaturates.
Dar gateau pro tiebreak ("to pass off a cat as a hare") is an expression common to many Spanish-speaking countries, equivalent to "to pull the wool over someone's eyes" derived from this basic scam.
There is an equivalent Portuguese expression Compare gator pot febrile, meaning "to buy a cat as a hare". The expression Churriguera e goat ("cat barbecue") is largely used in Brazil with a humorous note,
especially for roadside stands that offer grilled meat on a stick (often
coated with faro), due to their poor hygiene and that the source of the meat is mostly unknown. Also, in the Philippines,
there is an urban legend and a joke that some vendors use cat meat to make passion (steamed bun), leading some Filipinos to name their pet cats "Passion".
Meanwhile, "kitten cakes" and "buy three warmish - assemble a kitten" are common Russian urban jokes about the suspect origin of food from street vendors' stalls. In English, the common expression refers to what the victim of the trick thinks is happening: "Buy a pig in a poke."
The inhabitants of Vicenza in northern Italy are reputed to eat cats, although the practice has been out of use for decades.[18]
In February 2010, a popular Italian gastronome was criticized and
suspended from a show for talking about the former practice of eating
cat stew in Tuscany.[19]
During the so-called "Bad Times" of hunger in Europe during and after World War I and World War II "roof-rabbit" was a common food.[20] Those who thought that they were eating Australian rabbits[21] were really eating European cats.
Some restaurants in the Hui Prong and Hạ Long Bay area in north Vietnam advertise cat meat hot pot as "little tiger", and cats in cages can be seen inside.[22]
Cattle hold a traditional place as objects of reverence in countries such as India. Many Hindus, particularly Brahmins, are vegetarian and strictly abstaining from eating meat. Many of those who do eat meat abstain from the consumption of beef, especially in the north and west India, as the cow holds a sacred place in Hinduism.[23] For example, tradition states that the goddessKampuchea manifests herself as a wish-granting divine cow, with such stories repeated over generations.[24] Beef is widely eaten in south India, especially Kerala, and throughout northeast India.
In contrast to cow slaughter, consumption of dairy products such as milk, yogurt, and particularly ghee (a form of butter) is highly common in India. Cow-derived products play a significant role in Hinduism with milk particularly being highly revered, often being used in holy ceremonies.[24]
Bullocks
were the primary source of agricultural power and transportation in the
early days, and as India adopted an agricultural lifestyle, the cow
proved to be a very useful animal: this respect stemming out of
necessity led to abstaining from killing cows for food; for example, if a
famine-stricken village kills and eats its bullocks, they will not be
available to pull the slough and the cart when next planting season
comes. However, this hypothesis has found little data to support it.
Areas suffering from famine may resort to consuming cattle in efforts to
survive till the next season.
By Indian law, the slaughter of female cattle (i.e. cows) is banned in almost all Indian states except Kerala, West Bengal and the seven north eastern states.[25] A person involved in either cow slaughter or its illegal transportation could be jailed in many states.[26] Slaughter of cows is an extremely provocative issue for many Hindus. Many Zoroastrians do not eat beef, because of the cow that saved Zoroaster's life from murderers when Zoroaster was a baby. Actual Pahlavi texts state that Zoroastrians should be fully vegetarian.
Some ethnic Chinese may also refrain from eating cow meat, because
many of them feel that it is wrong to eat an animal that was so useful
in agriculture. Some Chinese Buddhists discourage the consumption of beef, although it is not considered taboo. A similar taboo can be seen among Sinhalese Buddhists, who consider it to be ungrateful to kill the animal whose milk and labor provides livelihoods to many Sinhalese people.
While both beef and dairy consumption is permitted in Judaism, the
mixing of dairy products with any sort of meat is completely forbidden.[8]
Chewing gum
is a soft, cohesive substance intended for chewing but not swallowing.
Humans have used chewing gum for at least 3,000 years. In Singapore
importing chewing gum is a criminal offense. The exception is made for
dental or nicotine gum, which is available from dentists and pharmacies.[27][28]
As a general rule, all seafood is permissible in the 3 madhouse of Sunni Islam except Hanafi school of thought. The Safari school of Islamic jurisprudence, which is followed by most Shiva Muslims, prohibits non-spiciness (lacking scales) seafood (with the exception of shrimp).
Dairy products
Milk,
cheese, yogurt, and other dairy products are not consumed by vegans due
to their animal origin. The consumption of dairy products together with
meat is also prohibited as non-kosher in the Jewish faith, as
prescribed in Deuteronomy 14:21: "You shall not boil a young goat in its mother's milk."
Generally in all Western countries
eating dog meat is considered taboo, though that taboo has been broken
under threat of starvation in the past. Dog meat has been eaten in every
major German crisis at least since the time of Frederick the Great, and is commonly referred to as "blockade mutton."[30] In the early 20th century, consumption of dog meat in Germany was common.[31][32]
Suspicions about the provenance of Frankfurter meat sold by German
immigrants in the United States led to the coinage of the term 'hot dog'. In 1937, a meat inspection law targeted against trichinella was introduced for pigs, dogs, boars, foxes, badgers, and other carnivores.[33] Dog meat has been prohibited in Germany since 1986.[34] In 2009 a scandal erupted when a farm near Częstochowa was discovered rearing dogs to be rendered down into smalec - lard.[35]
According to the ancient Hindu scriptures (cf. Mandamus and medicinal texts like Thrush Samaritan), dog's meat
was regarded as the most unclean (and rather poisonous) food possible.
Dog's meat is also regarded as unclean under Jewish and Islamic dietary
laws;[36] therefore, both of those religious traditions also discourage its consumption. In Irish mythology, legend recounts how C Cuchulain, the great hero of Ulster, was presented with a Morton's fork, forcing him to either break his gas (taboo) about eating dog meat (his name means Cuchulain's Hound) or break his taboo about declining hospitality; Cú Chulainn chose to eat the meat, leading ultimately to his death.
In Mexico during the pee-Columbian era a hairless dog named xoloitzcuintle was commonly eaten.[37]
After colonization, this custom stopped. Lewis & Clark plus the men
in his expedition were recorded in Lewis's journals of having eaten and
enjoyed dog meat which was common practice in Indians of the American
Plains.
In East Asia, most countries excluding Vietnam, Northand South Korea rarely consume dog meat either because of Islamic or Buddhist values or animal rights as in the Philippines. Manchus have a prohibition against the eating of dog meat, which is sometimes consumed by the Manchus' neighboring Northeastern Asian peoples. The Manchus also avoid the wearing of hats made of dog's fur. In addition to Manchus, Chinese Mongol, Miao, Muslims, Tibetan, Yao and Yi have a taboo against dog meat.[38] In Indonesia, due to its majority Islamic population, consuming dog meat is prohibited, with exception of Christian Batak and Seminarian ethnic groups that traditionally consumed dog meat.
Jains abstain from eating eggs. Vegans also abstain from eggs, due to their animal origin. Many Hindu vegetarians also refrain from eating eggs, although this is not universal among the faithful. An egg that naturally contains a spot of blood may not be eaten under
Jewish and Islamic tradition, although they're commonly consumed
otherwise.[8]
Elephants
Buddhist monks are forbidden from eating elephant meat.[40]
Among the Somali people, most clans have a taboo against the consumption of fish, and do not intermarry with the few occupational clans that do eat it.[42][43] There are taboos on eating fish among many upland pluralists and agriculturalists (and even some coastal peoples) inhabiting parts of southeastern Egypt, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Somalia, Kenya, and northern Tanzania.
This is sometimes referred to as the "Cushion fish-taboo", as Cushion
speakers are believed to have been responsible for the introduction of
fish avoidance to East Africa, though not all Cushion groups avoid fish. The zone of the fish taboo roughly coincides with the area where Cushion languages are spoken, and as a general rule, speakers of Silo-Saharan and Semitic languages do not have this taboo, and indeed many are weathermen.[43][44]
The few Bantu and Nicotine groups in East Africa that do practice fish avoidance also reside in areas where Cushiest
appear to have lived in earlier times. Within East Africa, the fish
taboo is found no further than Tanzania. This is attributed to the local
presence of the tsetse fly and in areas beyond, which likely acted as a barrier to further southern migrations by wandering moralists, the principal fishmongers. Zambia and Mozambique's Bantus were therefore spared subjugation by pastoral groups, and they consequently nearly all consume fish.[43]
There is also another center of fish avoidance in Southern Africa, among mainly Bantu speakers.
It is not clear whether this disinclination developed independently or
whether it was introduced. It is certain, however, that no avoidance of
fish occurs among southern Africa's earliest inhabitants, the Khoisan.
Nevertheless, since the Bantu of southern Africa also share various
cultural traits with the pluralists further north in East Africa, it
is believed that, at an unknown date, the taboo against the consumption
of fish was similarly introduced from East Africa by cattle-herding
peoples who somehow managed to get their livestock past the
aforementioned tsetse fly endemic regions.[43]
Certain species of fish are also forbidden in Judaism such as the freshwater eel (Anguilla) and all species of catfish. Although they live in water, they appear to have no scales (except under a microscope) (see Leviticus 11:10-13[45]).
Sunni Muslim laws are more flexible in this. Catfish and shark are
generally seen as halal as they are special types of fish. Eel is
generally considered permissible in the four Sunni madh'hab. The
Ja'fari jurisprudence followed by most Shia Muslims forbid all species
of fish that does not have scales, it also forbid all shell fish species
except prawns.[46]
Norse settlers in Greenland (10th–15th centuries AD) developed a taboo against fish consumption, as recounted in Jared Diamond's Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed. This is unusual, as Norsemen
did not generally have a taboo against fish, Diamond noting that "Fish
bones account for much less than 0.1% of animal bones recovered at
Greenland Norse archeological sites, compared to between 50 and 95% at
most contemporary Iceland, northern Norway, and Shetland sites."
Fungi and plants
Medic Brahmins, Gaudily Vanishing, tantriks and some Buddhist priests abstain from fungi and all vegetables of the onion family (Alliance). They believe that these excite damaging passions.[50]
In North Indian traditions, plants of the onion family, and effectively
all overwintering plants are considered taboo. This is possibly due to
the influence of Jain traditions. In Jain traditions, bad karma is
generated with all forms of killing, including that of plants. Hierarchy
of living creatures is based on the number of senses they possess. In
this hierarchy, overwintering plants such as onions are ranked higher
than other food crops such as wheat and rice. The ability of onions to
observe the changing of the seasons and bloom in spring is believed to
be an additional 'sense' absent in lower plants. The amount of bad karma
generated depends on the number of senses the creature possesses.
Therefore, it is thought best to avoid eating onions. Fungi are eschewed
as they grow at night. In Iceland, rural parts of Sweden and Western Finland, although not taboo, mushrooms were not widely eaten before the Second World War. They were viewed as a food for cows and were also associated with the stigma of being a wartime and poverty food. This is a marked contrast to the ancient Romans, who considered the mushroom a delicacy of the highest order and held it in high regard as food fit for emperors.
Guinea pig and related rodents
Roast guinea pig (Cavia porcellus) in Peru
Guinea pigs, or cur, are commonly eaten in Peru, in the southwestern cities and villages of Colombia, and among some populations in the highlands of Ecuador, mostly in the Andes highlands.[51] Cubes can be found on the menu of restaurants in Lima and other cities in Peru, as well as in Pasto, Colombia. Guinea pig meat is exported to the United States and European nations.[52][53]
The guinea pig's close rodent cousins, carapace and pica, are consumed as food in South America. The Catholic Church's restriction on eating meat during Lent does not apply to the carapace, as it is specifically exempted from this rule.[56]
Horses and other equines
Smoked and salted horse meat on a sandwich.
Horse meat is part of the cuisine of countries as widespread as
Italy, with an average of 900 grams consumed per person annually ; Belgium, France, Spain and Switzerland, where horse meat is common in supermarkets; Germany with only 50 grams consumed per person on average annually. It is still sold in some specialized butcher shops in eastern Austria, and also eaten in Polynesia, Serbia,[57]Slovenia,[58] Kazakhstan, but is taboo in some religions and many countries.
It is forbidden by Jewish law, because the horse is not a ruminant, nor does it have cloven hooves. Similarly to dogs, eating horses was a taboo for the Castro culture in Northwestern Portugal, and it is still a counter-cultural practice in the region.
Horse meat is forbidden by some sects of Christianity. In 732, Pope Gregory III instructed Saint Boniface to suppress the pagan practice of eating horses, calling it a "filthy and abominable custom".[60] The Christianisation of Iceland in 1000 AD was achieved only when the Church promised that Icelanders could continue to eat seahorse; once the Church had consolidated its power, the allowance was discontinued.[61] Horsemeat is still popular in Iceland and is sold and consumed in the same way as beef, lamb and pork.
In Islam, opinions vary as to the impressibility of horse meat. Some cite a Editha
forbidding it to Muslims, but others doubt its validity and authority.
Wild horses are generally seen as halal while domesticated horses and
asses are viewed as forbidden. Various Muslim cultures have differed in
the attitude in eating the meat. Historically, Turks and Persians have
eaten the meat, while in North Africa this is rare.
Horse meat consumption is modestly counter-cultural in the English-speaking world.
In Canada, horse meat is legal. Most Canadian horse meat is exported to Continental Europe
or Japan. The consumer protection show "Kassensturz" of Swiss
television SRF discovered the bad treatment and brutal animal husbandry
in Canadian horse meat farms,[62] consequently the import from such farms has been boycotted.[63] In the United States, sale and consumption of horse meat is illegal in California[64] and Illinois.[65]
However, it was sold in the US during WW II, since beef was expensive,
rationed and destined for the troops. The last horse meat slaughterhouse
in USA was closed in 2007.[62]
Nevertheless, discarded leisure, sport and work horses are collected
and sold at auctions. They are shipped across the country by
transporters to the borders of Canada in the north and Mexico in the
south to be sold to horse meat butchers.[66][67]
The handling of the animals at the collection points and during the
hours of transport is brutal. Some animals do not survive the hours long
transports.[62] The issue of horse consumption in the UK and Ireland was raised in 2013 with regards to the 2013 horse meat contamination scandal.
Although generally horse meat is also avoided in the Balkans, though not Slovenia, as horse is considered to be a noble animal, or because eating horse meat is associated with war-time famine, it has a small niche market in Serbia.[57]
Of all the taboo meat, human flesh ranks as the most heavily
proscribed. In recent times humans have consumed the flesh of fellow
humans in rituals and out of insanity, hatred, or overriding hunger –
never as a common part of their diet, but it is thought that the
practice was once widespread among all humans.[68] The consumption of human flesh is forbidden by Hinduism[69] and Judaism and Islam.
Catholics, Lutherans, and Orthodox Christians do not view themselves as engaging in cannibalism when taking communion, as it is believed that although the bread and wine become of the same substance as the body and blood of Christ before being consumed, they remain bread and wine in all ways to the senses.[70] Catholics refer to this as transubstantiation; the Orthodox believe the change occurs, but hesitate to attempt a description of the mechanism, believing it to be a sacred mystery. Most Protestants
and other Christian denominations do not believe that
transubstantiation (or any actual physical presence of Jesus in any
form) occurs at all.[71]
Cannibalism used to be required in certain tribes; the Fore people of Papua New Guinea were particularly well-studied in their eating of the dead, because it led to guru, a disease believed to be transmitted by prions. In the book Daily life in China, on the eve of the Mongol invasion, 1250-1276Jacques Ethernet
refers to restaurants that specialized in human flesh. From the
context, it does not appear that this was a freak event associated with
famine.
Here's the Dependably Honest, Real Truth About David Saks
'*There's not only an "Official Song of Memphis," there are two of them
January 3, 1993. David Saks talks about the Elvis Stamp and Stamp Collecting on WHBQ Radio Memphis. Audio only with photos.
A Stamp From the King - Part 1
On January 8, 1993, David Saks was honored by the United States Postal Service and Graceland, the home of Elvis Presley, as the recipient of the very first officially released Elvis Stamp in front of millions of Elvis fans attending the event and watching on television throughout the world.
David had recently been honored by the City of Memphis by having two songs which he composed, 'One Last Bridge' Official Song of Memphis...
"One Last Bridge" was adopted as an "Official Song of Memphis" on May 20, !990 by the Memphis City Council. It was recorded on Beale Street the same year in this rough cut by David. It was never recorded again because of the political motivation involved in the selection process by the government to find a song about Memphis. It was chosen after dozens of songs had been submitted for consideration, including Walking In Memphis.
David isn't a singer. He's an instrumental composer.
...and 'In Memphis' adopted in resolution by the city government as the Official Songs of Memphis.
Here's the Dependably Honest, Real Truth About David Saks
'*There's not only an "Official Song of Memphis", there are two of them.'
Saks hasn't spoken with Ms. today, since February or anytime this week..
I spoke with him about ten minutes ago and he said that tried to
contact him today while he was at the University of Memphis' memorial
tribute to Elvis Presley.
He still hasn't spoken with her. Ms. apologized to him in a recorded message for not returning his call promptly.
has forwarded copies of the Official Song of Memphis resolutions to other editors.
Saks said that he would forward the city council documents to anyone who requested them from him.
Saks' call to the city council is an attempt to get to the bottom of this.
Why don't you call Saks, Scribner ?
What are the additional facts that you believe others would find amusing that you want to shield from Mr.Saks ?
If you had taken the time to review all of the data you'd know
that the council resolutions word the awards as "official songs",
including "In Memphis", adopted in 1991, and "One Last Bridge", adopted
in 1990.
"One Last Bridge" was approved in unanimous resolution, 11-0, as an "Official Song of Memphis".
See the record of the regular session of the Memphis City Council
for May 22, 1990, signed by City Councilman Bill Davis, and City
Council Chairman Jimmy Moore, proclaiming "One Last Bridge" an "Official
Song of Memphis" for 1990.
This document was also signed by Linda Rogers, Deputy Comptroller of the City Council Records.
See the record of the regular session of the Memphis City Council
for January 24, 1991, signed by Memphis City Councilwoman Mary Rose
McCormick proclaiming "In Memphis" as "The Official Song of Memphis" for
1991.
Please remain civil and don't engage in personal attacks.
Violations of these user-conduct policies can result in revocation of
editing priviledges. I have removed your personal attacks. — Saxifrage✎ 21:16, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
I have removed another personal attack. I see that you've removed
the "[personal attack removed]" notes, as well as had second thoughts
about another you wrote just a moment ago. This is improvement. — Saxifrage✎ 21:29, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Anon, your sentimentality toward Saks is telling. I guessed our
identity days ago. Anyone who doubts what I have stated here should call
Ms. at 901-576-6815. Ms. is aware of the dialogue on this page.--Scribner 22:05, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Scribner, what does guessing my identity and sentimentality have to
do with anything? Would you also claim that dozenist and jersyko are
expressing sentimentality in their bias and cronyism in this discussion
because they are friends, as referenced in jersyko's biography? I want
to have the facts printed just like you are trying to do. Did you speak
to the same Ms. that I did in February 2006 as previously referenced in
this article? Why it has taken so long for you to verify what I did in
February 2006 intriques me. At issue is not the number of awards or how
well known Mr. Saks or his songs are but that he has awards from the
City Council for two "Official Songs" of Mephis and there should be a
heading for this, just like Tallest Buildings. I'm amazed as well that
there is no mention of Clarence Saunders and his contribution to the
City of Memphis due to creating Piggly Wiggly, the first self-service
stores in the nation, and building the Pink Palace.Bold text--70.248.232.236 23:13, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, is it such a good idea to post this poor lady's telephone number here? Perhaps we should remove all references to it. · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 22:22, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk
It's a City Council number. I asked Ms. if she would like for me to
remove her name (placed here by Anon). Ms. said no, and read the talk
page while we were on the phone. She knows her name and the City Council
number are on this page. Additionally, I asked her if she minded if I
posted the contents of our discussion, which she had no problem with at
all.--Scribner 23:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Her number's publicly available and easy to find, so I don't think
listing it here is a problem, but clearly we shouldn't all pile on and
telephone the poor woman about this. She's being very kind to comment on
the issue at all, and I'm sure she has more important work to do.
Scribner, I don't suppose she mentioned any way of providing formal
documentation that there isn't an official song of Memphis? Ordinarily
there'd be nor call for it - you'd need the documentation to prove
something is true, not that it isn't - but right now we're stuck in a 'Tis! 'Tisin't!
match that could go on indefinitely. A definitive, formal 'no',
preferably on city letterhead, could go a long way towards putting this
to bed.
I stress that, should Ms. be unable or unwilling to provide such proof, that would not
constitute proof that 'One Last Bridge' is the official song of
Memphis. We'd still need solid references to it as something other than
the song of a given year. -- Vary | Talk 00:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Anything the city puts in print will likely be run through the legal
department. We can ask Gail Carson at the mayor's office for a letter.
Let's keep in mind, it's the contributing editor's burden of proof. We
don't have to disprove an unverified claim.--Scribner 00:48, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
You're absolutely right, and normally I wouldn't even suggest it,
but this has gone on so long and caused so much drama, I'd love to see a
clean resolution. -- Vary | Talk 00:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Mr. Saks has provided the Official City Council Documents.
Commercial Appeal has a columnist, Blake Fonenay, who covers the
Memphis city government, including the city council. Apparently, the
Memphis council, like most city councils, regularly adopts minor
ceremonial or honorary resolutions of this kind. In May 2004, the
council recognized an Ernestine Pledger-Peete for her work as a barber instructor at the Tennessee Technology Center at Memphis. And apparently early this year, the Memphis city council adopted a resolution to declare February 'direct deposit month.' The archives of Mr. Fonenay's blog are available online. Of most interest to this discussion is the section of articles tagged as City Council. It's entertaining reading.
What Scribner learned from his research was the truth - 'One Last Bridge' was adopted as the official song of 1991, yes, but not as The Official Song of Memphis.
The latter is notable, the former is not, and doesn't belong in the
article any more than Direct Deposit Month or Mrs. Pledger-Peete do.
Please do not accuse other editors of lying, especially if you have no
evidence. -- Vary | Talk 23:49, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Vary, perhaps you should remind Scribner not to accuse other editors
of lying? As can be read from the previous discussion, Scribner was the
first to suggest that other editors were lying. The truth was
researched and revealed in February 2006 but you failed to acknowledge
it. I have to question the professional ability of editors that choose
to place "Voodoo Fest" (which clearly belongs in a New Orleans article)
instead of Clarence Saunders, founder of Piggly Wiggly or Official Songs
of Memphis in a piece on Memphis.--70.248.232.236 01:28, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
The documents you uploaded actually prove exactly what we've
suspected, the songs were named the "official song of Memphis for 1990"
and "official song of Memphis for 1991" only. The documents are
proof that they not named the official songs of Memphis ad infinitum.
The "recognition" document is completely irrelevant to the notability of
the songs. The appropriateness of the article on Saks himself has been
fully discussed and hashed out in the David Saks Afd.
You really shouldn't take offense at being found "not notable" for
Wikipedia purposes. After all, I'm not notable, either, as are almost
all other people. That doesn't mean, however, that we cannot do
something that could eventually make us encyclopedic. · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 00:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
This entire section of the discussion page has gotten very far from the policy about verifying assertions in Wikipedia:Verifiability. As Scribner pointed out, "We don't have to disprove an unverified claim." On an unrelated note, what is the status of copyright on material
created by the City of Memphis? I know that Federal US creations are
public domain, but this does not apply to state, county, or municipal
governments in the US. Likely those images will have to be deleted for
lack of copyright release. — Saxifrage✎ 01:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Speaking simply from my legal knowledge, you're right, Saxifrage.
States and their subdivisions (including cities) are not included in the
Copyright Act's "public domain" section. In particular, I know that
Memphis claims copyright in its works. You can see such a claim at the
bottom of the city's website, for instance. · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 01:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Since I'm relatively new to this forum, you'll forgive if I mention
that I didn't notice any copyright symbols on the city council
resolutions. Since they belong to Mr. Saks, and he's contributed them to
Wikipedia, maybe someone capable of arbitrating this should call or
email him. Or the city council. His email is available on his website. I
don't believe that Mr. Saks' attorneys nor the legal advisor to the
City of Memphis would request that you remove the council resolution
jpegs.The Official WebSite of David Saks66.239.212.25 02:34, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
A copyright symbol does not need to be on a work for it to be covered by copyright. See Copyright Act of 1976
for further explanation. Saks does not own the copyright, even if the
papers are in his possession and even if his name is on the papers, as
he did not create the work. Rather, the City of Memphis owns the
copyright in the papers. If you want to keep the jpegs on Wikipedia, you
need to get explicit permission from the relevant City authorities. I'm
explaining this simply as a legal matter based on my legal knowledge;
these are not opinions based on any of our prior interactions or my bias
or prejudice, but legal facts. · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 02:44, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Jersyko, if you'd noted the dates on both the recognition document
and the official song of Memphis document, "One Last Bridge", you'd see
that they were entered the same day, May 22, 1990, and relative to the
same item, mainly the Official Song of Memphis of 1990, which may be a
reference to the council session. Mr. Saks didn't include another
recognition document for the other song, and I wouldn't ask him. To do
so would be tantamount to abasement, depriving him of self-esteem, which
Scribner has attempted. The council doesn't seek an annual song of
Memphis, and the documents have relevance in substantiating the
recognition and notablity of the composer by the city government which
recognizes Mr.Saks with "Appreciation of Outstanding Contribution to the Community".
To dismiss it as irrelevant is a ludicrous assertion. Whether they were
the songs of 1990 or 1790 also has no bearing on or connection with the
subject at issue, and is repetitively digressive and becoming a
tiresome argument that you continue to slam that allows you to proceed
to a conclusion without reason or intuition. Jersyko, have you discovered an expiration date on the Memphis City Council Official Song of Memphis resolutions ?
When do they officially expire and cease being "Official Songs of
Memphis" ? Could it be that the Memphis City Council has committed an
error by not providing an expiration date on the resolutions? They're
the cities official songs and were the only songs given this distinction
by the city government in the late twentieth century, or any other
century in the history of Memphis. What Scribner said about his
conversation with , is a lie. What he said about there being no official
song of Memphis is also a lie. This is not a personal attack on
Scribner. He has the propensity to submit a statement that deviates from
or perverts the truth. I'm not sure if Scribner's intent is to deceive,
if he or she is being intentionally vague or ambiguous, or is trying to
cover up a deliberate act of deviating from the truth. never spoke with
Mr. Saks this week. She did try to call him today. Mr. Saks was at the
University of Memphis with George Klein and Sam Phillips son, Jerry Phillips, for the memorial service for Elvis Presley.
I'm sure there are many worthy occupations, lines of work, businesses,
commercial activities and people of all concerns that deserve
recognition and have been recognized by the city council. The
recognition of David Saks was an honor presented to him that was of a
distinctly greater degree than is commonly the nature of the Memphis
City Council. It was a tangible symbol signifying approval and the
distinction of this gentleman.66.239.212.25 02:13, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Your claims will be dismissed until you can substantiate them with reliable sources. For reference, the policy on this is at Wikipedia:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Reliable sources. If you don't follow the rules, you will be ignored and dismissed. — Saxifrage✎ 02:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Saxifrage, the facts have been established. Read everything, from top
to bottom. Must these issues be repeated over and over and over like
Chinese water torture to satisfy your needs? I'm not looking for a
proselyte. You do what you must. These claims have been proven and
verified many, many times over the last year. It's not up to me to read
the text for you. If you were thirsty, would you ask me to drink a glass
of water for you? Would your thirst be quenched by my actions? I doubt
it. Similarly, covering all of these issues for your benefit, once
again, is ridiculous. Your tag-teaming this matter with Jersyko, Vary,
Dozenist and Scribner without giving the evidence the examination it
deserves on your own. Why edit as it suits you rather than try to assist
the matter? Is it because you demonstrate partiality that prevents
objective consideration of an issue or situation? It's starting to sound
like it. Don't prove despotic without carefully examining the evidence,
all of it, not just the last two or three days. There's a massive
volume of information supporting Mr. Saks. Stop threatening me.
BTW, calls for notability, reliable sources and verifiable sources have
been requested at least fourteen times on this page alone, and, in each
instance, have been provided. It's repetitively tiresome. Many, many
reliable and verifiable sources have been provided, and, if you include
song or music notability it ups the ante. Mr.Saks' supporters obviously
won the argument a year ago, as they have this day. Devil's Advocacy is
in play by the shallow tone of the editor at times and the demonstration
of tribal, virulent swaggering is below the belt and foul. The
compulsive deletion and tag-teaming has become personal. Most of Mr.
Saks' supporters are newcomers and don't have the deletion and reversion
privileges that veteran cronies tenaciously subscribe to. The integrity
of any editor or writer is in question, including myself if you don't
have the fortitude to admit that your wrong rather than milk the editor
past the precise location of something obviously verified and reliable;
it demonstrates that the challenger is spatially limited. It's just a
suggestion, not a personal attack. 66.239.212.54 05:18, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Verifiable information would be the City of Memphis saying that the
songs are "Official Songs" somewhere publicly available. They haven't
done this, it seems. — Saxifrage✎ 07:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
'Has anyone discovered an expiration date on the Memphis City
Council Official Song of Memphis Resolutions ? Of course not. That's
preposterous. When do they officially expire and cease being the
"Official Songs of Memphis" ? Ask Ms. if the Memphis City Council
assigned an expiration date to each of Mr. Saks' songs ?'66.239.212.54 05:55, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
We have no idea or evidence for how the City of Memphis operates
internally. Perhaps they need expirations dates, perhaps they don't,
perhaps the Resolution means something in particular, perhaps it means
something else. Without evidence that they are currently Official
Songs (evidence which has not surfaced, and which seems to have been
refuted informally by an editor in good standing) we have no basis for
putting them in the article. Your protestations to the contrary are
notwithstanding, since WP:AUTO takes your opinion out of the equation. — Saxifrage✎ 07:19, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes, the "Official Song" status expired at the end of 1990 and 1991.--Scribner 13:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
The city council spokespersons have reaffirmed recently, and several
times earlier this year, that the two songs will always stand as
Official Songs of Memphis, and never placed any restrictions or expiration dates on them.
Because they were adopted for a particular year doesn't rob them of
their status as Official Songs of Memphis any more than recognizing the
trombonist of the year award would rob a musician of this achievement.
The Official Song of Memphis award is a notable and prominent musical accomplishment and deserves a category under the article, perhaps in 'The Arts'.
The other councilmen that can attest to this fact are councilmen
Sammons, Lowery and Councilwoman McCormick. Former council chairman
Jimmy Moore would speak with you. Why don't you and Mr.Saks meet at the
council chamber next Tuesday for their session and request a hearing
during their call for adjournment and recognition of visitors? His
office number is 901-278-8008. He's extremely cordial and as polite as
anyone you could imagine. I've known of him as a broadcaster, when he
was a student at Rhodes College and the University of Memphis, and as a
notable Memphis Musician. Your judgement is imperfect in a faulty way
and it robs you of the fortitude to retract or disavow your formerly
held attestation, in rather poor taste, that there was never an official
song of Memphis. Scribner, I find it extremely difficult to provide or
furnish a mental attitude regarding anything from you at this point
because of my suspicion that your input consistently possesses the
quality of being fraudulent. I don't intend for this to appear personal.
Only a calm, intent consideration of the collection of facts by which
your conclusions are established through intentional misrepresentation.Reneec 14:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Did the City Council approach you, David Saks?--Scribner 15:21, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Problems in Memphis (2)
Sorry, I have to bring people's attention back to the problems, which so conveniently seem to be omitted from this article. Here are some that were mentioned before:
Out of control urban sprawl, i.e. Memphis is more of an isolated
suburb than a city, resulting in a terrible public transportation
system. A car is an absolute necessity in Memphis, so teenagers are
never able to develop the kind of independance associated with urban
living until after they start driving. Tourism is also difficult
especially for people visiting from outside the United States. The city
streets look deserted (except Beale street at night)because the sprawl
makes walking unfeasible. Most east memphis residential neighborhoods
don't even have sidewalks. Area shopping malls thrive at most a few
years before a new one opens further east drawing away all the
bussiness. I also have an objection to the sentence: "Memphis is also a literary
mecca." Graceland is certainly a Mecca of sorts and Memphis may be for
some styles of music. But to suggest it is a "literary" mecca in such a
broad sense is, to quote my annoying Memphis high school teacher, a gross
hyperbole! Many of the authors listed have cursory connections to
Memphis and the list is not much longer than that of many other cities. I want to mention that I know lots of Memphians get annoyed with
repetitive criticism of their city. But Memphis has a strong reputation,
in part quite negative, and to simply paint a rosy positive picture of a
city with such a reputation makes residents (or for the more
enlightened, the writers of this article) look close-minded and
dishonest. All cities have problems, so admit them. This isn't a travel
brochure. Also, the contemporary racial issues should be addressed to update
people on the situation, especially those people whose perception of
Memphis is still stuck in the civil rights era. Some positives that weren't explicitly mentioned in the article:
cheap affordable housing
and low cost of living
lots of trees (trust me, this is a big plus)
Generally, I think your ideas are good ones. Scribner had some similar ideas, which are expressed in a subsection above. Perhaps you could collaborate in this regard? · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 19:37, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Hmmmm....Let's close our eyes for a minute and replace the name of
Memphis with the names of Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, to name a few. How
can you collaborate without expressing your own personal opinions, as
referenced above?--70.248.232.236 01:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
A little maturity is what everyone needs to show here. David Saks
exists. His songs are not really hugely known. Memphis has problems, but
they are not that different than many other similarly-sized North
American urban areas. I know all of this, but for me to cite it in the article I need to back it with published
sources, not just phone calls to people whom I know or who happen to
agree with me, even if they work for the city government. I think that
we need to give very little weight to comments from those editors
who are so very opinionated but think little enough of Wikipedia to
either sign their comments or even bother to create an account, and more
to those who do both. Rlquall 02:17, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments Rlquall. Dba5,
your comments are factual. I have documented them before and will do so
again, time permitting. Memphis may be the hardwood capitol of the
world, I'd heard it before and here it is again. Interesting.--Scribner 03:22, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Rlquall, you sound like a reasonable individual. No disrespect,
however, an account only gives a little more privilege in the editing
arena, but does little more than that. Your as anonymous as I am and
your Wiki-account doesn't demonstrate or manifest your visibility anymore
than it would on Paltalk.
Does your club membership in Wikipedia give your opinion more validity?
I think not. And what makes you think that anyone without an account is
demonstrating contempt, or as you've suggested,' think little enough of Wikipedia' ?
Your generalizing that all users without an account participate in a
manner that is disrespectful and contemptuous of those who register.
That's not an essential qualification for participation in this forum or
any other in Wikipedia. Courtesy is, however. Some of the best
arguments I've ever read, ever, come from the works of Anon. Why
don't you draw from specific cases for more clarity of your assertion?
Membership has it's privileges, I agree. Many enter briefly because they
refuse to recognize Wikipedia as authoritative because it's
unrestrained by convention or propriety, and faced with defiance and
impudence. Many colleges refuse Wiki citation in bibliographical
reference because of this. Good luck and I hope you find a chair on the
Wikipedia membership drive committee. I'd nominate you but I haven't
registered. Non-members can't vote, right?66.239.212.25 03:10, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't talk to yourself with sockpuppets, it's silly. — Saxifrage✎ 07:12, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
What you seem not to understand is that an account gives, funnily enough, accountability.
A user with a persistent account has an edit history and is traceable
in all their activities at Wikipedia. Just like in real life, a
reputation is created and precedes an editor. Thus, yes, the willingness
to submit to such scrutiny is a sign of greater trustworthiness.
So long as you demonstrate lack of understanding of this project
when you thumb your nose at the community and our ways, and so long as
you remain "more anonymous" than all the rest of us, yes, you will get
very little respect. If you don't like this, you might want to get an
account and start establishing a reputation beyond "that anon with a
David Saks obsession and no desire to contribute anything else". Oh, on
that note, there's another thing that engenders respect for an editor's
opinion: a track record that shows they have an interest in improving
the encyclopedia generally, rather than a single-minded self-serving
agenda. If you want respect, go edit something else and come back here
when you've learned a little more and you've established that you're not
just here to insert yourself into a high-visibility project. Don't
worry—Memphis isn't going anywhere and will be just the same when you do
come back. — Saxifrage✎ 07:25, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
On the note of citations, any student who's competent knows not to cite an encyclopedia, whether Wikipedia or Britannica.
Encyclopediae are tertiary reference works and should be used to find
the original references for real research. I doubt your assertions about
the reasons for Wikipedia citations being disallowed come from your own
investigation of this issue. — Saxifrage✎ 07:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
What you seem to be dispossessed of, Saxifrage, and what's even more
farcical, is that your as out of order with your claim that the anon has
an obsession with David Saks as much as you are with your sneering
display and expression of contempt for an anons input. Whatever they say
will stay in the forum and on the servers. The anon expressed earlier
that your tag-teaming compares the issue to a water torture style of
examination, rightly so. You obviously came in to the David Saks matter
as a newbie and hadn't done your research. The only notoriety for any
particular characteristic in this matter that you've demonstrated is not
what I would refer to as a great contribution to Wikipedia, and doesn't
do much for your reputation either. And where do get off with your
presumption of 'single-mindedness'? There've been many
editors and participants. You don't understand that your attempt to
suppress the input of any anon without an account is ludicrous,derisory
and prejudicial. You demonstrate this characteristic with your
unbelievable partiality that prevents objective consideration of an
issue or situation, 'so long as you remain "more anonymous" than all the rest of us, yes, you will get very little respect'.
Should one become a "Borg" in the manner of Star Trek to be accepted
into this forum? I'm certain that Memphis isn't going anywhere, but your
going nowhere, either with your conclusions or with the principles that
guide your reasoning within a given field or situation you've been
confronted, no more evident than in the case of David Saks. No one's
thumbing their nose at Wikipedia, just responding in the spirit of
cooperation. I hope that I'm addressing a competent individual and not
an ignorant college swot that all to frequently disrupts a forum with
contrived, phony intellectualism that sound like the spewing of a third
year undergraduate repeating some dull and officious fact that came
from the mouth of a monotonic erudite. Additionally, your quip, 'Encylopediae are tertiary reference works and should be used to find the original references for real research'
is odd. Are you referring to the Tertiary Period, Saxifrage, which
archaeology refers to as a period from 63 million to 2 million years
ago? Or are you referring to something that comes next after the second
and just before the fourth in the position of order? In that case, you
need updating. I suggest you read Hopi's Logic.Reece 15:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Renee -- a checker request in February confirmed that you are the
same user as nearly all the anons that have commented here. I hope that
you're not trying to deny that now, as it really seems that you are. · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 15:48, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
That's not true, Jersey. Although my IP isn't static, when I've enervated the forum without logging in, the string has always remained
the same in the first three sets. 66.239.212. Accusing me of being Mr.Saks is evident of Scribner's persistent dereliction of responsibility in this forum.Reneec 16:14, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Do you have any evidence of Scribner's, Mary's, Saxifrage's, Hedonist's, or my "persistent dereliction of responsibility" on
Wikipedia? Barbecue is important to point out that, at one point or
another, you have accused each of us of something quite similar. That's
(at least) five people you are making these very caustic accusations
about. You offer absolutely no evidence, however, of any such
"persistent dereliction of responsibility", however, other than a
perceived animosity of these editors toward either you or David Saks.
Consider for a moment that each of these editors has made hundreds, even
thousands of contributions here on Wikipedia, nearly all of which have
absolutely nothing to do with David Saks. You, however, have done
absolutely nothing but push David Saks since you came here. Do me a
favor: do not make blanket, insulting, even defamatory occupations
about the worthiness of other editors simply because they happen to
disagree with you on your single-purpose crusade. · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 16:24, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Above, Reneec says
"That's not true, Jersey. Although my IP isn't static, when I've deterred the forum without logging in, the string has always remained
the same in the first three sets. 66.239.212."
Right, and the comment you referred to above as having been made by
'an anon' (the water torture bit) was posted by one of those addresses, 66.239.212.25 (talk·contrition) in this diff, and later edited and re-signed by another addy in the same range, 66.239.212.54 (talk·contribs), in this diff. -- Vary | Talk 16:33, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Jersyko said:Do me a favor: do not make blanket, insulting,
even defamatory satisfactions about the worthiness of other editors
simply because they happen to disagree with you on your single-purpose
crusade. What bestows the privilege of favoritism in your personal
manner, Jersyko ? Do me a favor and stop asking for favors. Once
this has been settled I'll move on to the next. I can't help the fact
that your becoming enervated by attrition. What subject would you prefer
that I "push" ? You amuse me.Reneec 16:38, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Hey, maybe if you keep insulting us, we'll eventually agree with you! · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 16:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
You make me feel like the Don Trickles
of Wikipedia. Sorry, but I have to return to my day job. I have
property taxes and insurance, house notes, family and other matters that
are more important. I can't play with you anymore today. Perhaps later
this afternoon.Reneec 16:45, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
I do have to wonder why you were confused about which comments were
made from the IP range 66.239.212.x, which you have stated were made by
you, and which were made by the other anon active on this page, from the
range 70.248.232.x (a semi-static one, it appears, as all the edits
this month are from 70.248.232.236 (talk·contrition), while the ones in February were from 70.248.228.85 (talk·contribs)). -- Vary | Talk 16:53, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
And Suffrage is perfectly correct to point out that you have done
absolutely nothing on Wikipedia other than push the notability of David
Saks. · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 15:52, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Reneec, regarding your last comment, I suggest you see Tertiary source. Quoted below:
Where a primary source presents material from a first-hand witness to a phenomenon, and a secondary source provides commentary, analysis and criticism of primary sources, a tertiary source is a selection and compilation of primary and secondary sources.
So, yes, he was referring to something that comes after the second
and before the fourth, except there's no such thing as a Quaternary
source, so far as I know. -- Vary | Talk 15:57, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for your clarification, Vary. There is a Quaternary source,
however, and comes next after the third and just before the fifth in
position, time, degree or magnitude. It's also the cardinal number 4
that's the sum of three and one. As an adjective, it's anything
consisting of or arranged in sets of four. Perhaps the internet as a
whole source could be considered Quaternary? Reneec 16:27, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Pickpockets are common. You don't seem to realize how easy it is to
spot uppercutting. We unfortunately observe uppercutting frequently
and get to recognize socks pretty easily.
There doesn't appear to be any danger of this uneatable material
getting into the article, so I will take my leave for now. I'm sure
someone will drop me a message at my Talk page if this gets out of hand.
— Saxifrage✎ 19:41, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Did David Saks request the honors or did the City Council come to David Saks?
David, tell us all exactly how you came to be honored by the City Council for the two songs. Be specific, please.--Scribner 15:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
Call Saks and ask him, Scribner. His number's in the Memphis phone directory.Reneec 16:06, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
No, I want him to respond right here. Does he have something to hide?--Scribner 16:08, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
<personal attack removed>Reneec 05:55, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
"exorcise"[sic] is spelled exercise. When you're attacking people at least get the spelling right.--Scribner 07:53, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Contacted the Musicians Union Local 71 today, 8/17/06, regarding
David Saks. They had never heard of him, his songs, or "honors." In all
fairness, they didn't research their files, but they did instantly know
an old friend of mine. Reneec, fair warning...the personal attacks will not be tolerated.--Scribner 06:35, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
David, tell us all exactly how you came to be honored by the City Council for the two songs. Be specific, please.--Scribner 06:34, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Alright, it seems clear to me now that Reneec is enjoying being fed, and is merely trying to prolong his/her meal.
There's no real danger of anything actually appearing in the article
that shouldn't be there at this point, so I am of the opinion that
perhaps we should (1) continue to remove personal attacks posted here,
(2) revert the article as necessary, (3) not answer Reneec's posts until
s/he demonstrates a desire to engage in reasonable discussion again,
and (4) if the attacks continue, request NPA blocks on Reneec. Does anyone disagree? · j·e·r·s·y·k·otalk · 13:45, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
No argument here. -- Vary | Talk 14:01, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
<Personal Attack Removed> I called the musicians union long ago.
Saks signed a recording contract with the American Federation, of
Musicians, in October of 1989 when Jamison Brandt, now either retired or
deceased, was the president of the local chapter. Saks told me that he
didn't become a permanent member becuase he didn't teach or serve as a
session member of any ensemble other than when he was in grade school or
college. Outside of sitting in with various musicians like, Shawn Lane, Joe Walsh, Jimmy Vaughn, B.B.King, Herman Green, Doc Severinsen,
and others at various clubs or shows, he didn't believe that membership
was essential. He said, at the time, the benefits of membership were
primarily health insurance and that he had sufficient coverages from
other health related programs. He was the fisrt solo pianist invited to
play at the Peabody Hotel by Jack Belz,
who owns it, when it reopened in the early 1980's. Call Mr. Belz and
ask him if he knows Mr. Saks. He does and considers himself a friend.
Call Bernard Lanksy, Elvis' clothing outfitter at Lansky Brothers,
or his son, Hal, in the Peabody Hotel. They know Mr. Saks very well. As
a notable matter of fact, Mr. Lansky gave Mr.Saks two new tuxedos as a
gift to perform in on the grand reopening day. I spoke with Mr. Saks
after I read your last snippet of info. He's sending me the contract
document to upload. Who is "they", the desk girl at the musicians
union ? Are they Memphians ? They probably wouldn't have heard of him
unless they were from Memphis. As in the case of Mark James, composer of
"Suspicious Minds", Elvis' songwriter, few people know of him in
Memphis, but many know of him in Texas. Mr. Saks is sending me the
contract from the American Federation of Musicians. He said it's so old
that the ink's starting to wear off. But I'll send it anyway once it
gets here. Debunking it is not a good idea.Reneec 14:45, 18 August 2006 (UTC) <Personal Attack Removed> As promised, the debunking of Scribner's last allegation: Reneec 15:26, 18 August 2006 (UTC)
Hmmmm....Let's close our eyes for a minute and replace the name of
Memphis with the names of Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, to name a few. How
can you collaborate without expressing your own personal opinions, as
referenced above?--70.248.232.236 01:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
What personal opinions are you referring to? I think that some
"personal opinions" are of sociological importance and hence relevant to
this article.
Memphis has problems, but they are not that different than many other similarly-sized North American urban areas.
While there are many urban areas that share these problems, few
possess them to the same degree. I mean, only Memphis has the second
highest crime rate in the country. Regardless, the problems should be
mentioned; they are NOT common knowledge, even amongst residents. --Dba5 21:09, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Please check out the web site for City-Data.com. It states that
Memphis is a pleasant city to live in and has won the award for
"Cleanest U.S. City" five time. While it is not on the list for the 100
Safest U.S. cities, it is also not on the list for the 100 Least Safest
cities. Chattanooga is 41 and Pigeon Forge ranks 47 on the Least Safest
city list.--Boodro 21:57, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
"Memphis Mayor Says City is Not Livable or Safe"
Many citizens agree
Memphis is number one in the nation for infant mortality rates and
child pedestrian deaths...forth in crime in the nation. Of course
mention is warranted.--Scribner 22:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
Edits
There is no reason for the article to start with the comment about
Memphis not having been the state capital; I have never seen any
evidence that there was any credible movement to make it the state
capital and hence this is a non-issue. The Chicago and Los Angeles
articles do not begin with speculation as to why they are not the
capital cities of Illinois and California respectively; in only about
half of U.S. states is the state capital the largest city; in the South
this is only the case in Georgia, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Virginia; I
assume that one could now add Louisiana in light of the events of the
last year.Rlquall 18:20, 11 September 2006 (UTC) Rlquall, actually Memphis was temporarily the capital of Tennessee
for a brief time during the Civil War, at least according to a
historical marker in downtown Memphis that is located just north of the
intersection of either North 2nd and Madison, or North 3rd and Madison.
This was after Nashville fell to Union forces and before Memphis
likewise did the same. I know a historical marker is not a publication
but I figured that since the marker was erected either by the state or
city government that had to give it some level of credibility. And since
I don't have an account you can refer to me as cardinal. 172.163.124.90 10:14, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
Also the article begins with the claim that "As of 2006, the city of
Memphis had an estimated population of 680,768, making it the ... second
largest [city] in the southeastern region (only to Jacksonville,
Florida)." Um, what about Atlanta? Or Miami? My question exactly. I am pretty sure that Altanta and Miami are both bigger than both Memphis and Jacksonville. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.59.5.64 (talk • contribs).
I believe the figures are based on actual city population. Atlanta
is bigger than Memphis population-wise if you include the metropolitan
area, but Memphis has a larger population in the city proper. · j e r s y k otalk · 00:04, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
Ferret Of Chaos 3 months ago
A bag of frog legs from Vietnam.
Blue crabs, Mescaline Lepidus, for sale at a market in Piraeus.
Dog meat advertised as a "Guizhou specialty" in Huber, People's Republic of China.
Roast guinea pig (Cavia porcellus) in Peru
Smoked and salted horse meat on a sandwich.
