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November 13, 2008

MEAT MEN & Smokestack Lightning & BBQ & MEMPHIS

meat man by the killer
(written by mack vickery)

Big S Grill

1179 Dunnavant Ave (at Dow)
Memphis TN


I don't hide [my recipes]. I let them have them, but they tell me, "You're lying. That ain't the way you fix it." I say, "That's just the way I fix it." They don't want to believe it. God Give everybody so much. If barbecue is yours, that's it.
--J.C. Hardaway

The plywood pig hanging perpendicular to McLemore names the place: Candy Man Lounge. The few parking spaces in front are as empty as the lot next door. Black iron bars block all the entrances. Midday, midweek, and nothing is happening here.

Before the Candy Man moved in and crapped out, the store housed Hawkin's Grill. Started in 1938, Hawkin's turned out shoulder after slow-cooked shoulder for the better part of six decades. It was there that J. C. Hardaway, one of Memphis' world-renowned pit masters, got his start at the age of thirteen delivering orders on his bicycle.

Before long, J.C. traded in his pedals for the pits. He cooked hamburgers and chopped the meat as it came off the coals, all the while soaking up secrets and learning the tricks of a trade that would feed him and his community for years to come.

In 1993, J.C. took his tongs and walked around the corner and down Dunnavant to the Big "S" Grill. Now that J.C. sends his smoke up their stacks, they've added his name to the sign and his barbecue to the board, which for years sold only soul food. Listening to J.C., one wonders if there is a difference.

"God gives everybody so much. If barbecue is yours, that's it."

Oral History

Interview with J.C. Hardaway , 19 February 2002

Early Experiences

In the restaurant, Hawkins Grill. Eighteen, but I started at 13, 14, riding a bicycle delivering orders. At that time they didn't allow children [to work] in restaurants until they were of age. And, at the age of 18. So after I reached 18, I went inside and started working around, and started looking around and started cooking. Hawkins Grill, they were my godparents.

Did you try to spend time in the kitchen when you were younger? Did you get shooed away?

I think it might be that it was in my blood. Just in me that I would learn it. I was around it. I just picked it up.

Cook at home?

Nothing but regular food. Soul food. Home cooked food. No barbecue just home cooked food.

Beginnings in the Hawkins Kitchen Frying hamburgers and selling sandwiches, chopping up barbecue but I wasn't cooking it.

Profession from the Beginning?


Who did you learn to cook from at Hawkins?

No teacher. Just picked it up looking. Just looking. We didn't take time to teach you. You just picked it up.

They said here's the job?

Here's the job and if you couldn't do it you had to go I guess.

Who was in charge of barbecue at Hawkins?

Mrs. Hawkins

How Long Have You Been Cooking?

Since I was 18. 59 years.

How long was Hawkins Grill open?

From 1938 and I left in '93. Big S since '93. It'll be nine years in October.

Enjoy commercial cooking?

Yes. I enjoy cooking for the public. It's just a part of me. At the age I am now, I don't need nothing else but that basis.

A favorite part of cooking for the public?

I can do pastry. Most anything. But I do barbecue especially if I have a party I'll fix some barbecue beans, spaghetti, potato salad. That line of food, party food. Even cold plates, you know, if necessary.

Did you do catering at Hawkins?


Where'd you learn to do catering? I just picked it up. I put it together myself. It just have been my style of life, cooking.

Most people just don't learn pastry. No, that's what my wife says. I've got so many cakes and pies on order now that they'll never get them. We'll I told her I'm not thinking about them. When'll he get to it? We say whenever he feels like it, he'll fix it but he ain't in no hurry. It's not my job. I let them know I stopped doing all that.

I took cake decorating at Sears back some years ago. Much, much, a long time ago. I don't even know where my utensils I use. I couldn't find them even if I wanted to.

Commercial cooking give experiences or connect you to parts of the world that you never thought about before you started cooking? I have them all over the country. Overseas and everywhere. Wanting to hear about me. They want to know how I do this and that.

Call or write?

They ask me am I going to be in and some of their friends send them by.

People call from all over the world?

When can I get with you? I want to taste that world famous barbecue. I never knew that I'd be world famous. They say, you put everything into yours. You don't throw it up and sell it. You take pride with you food and your orders and get them out right. Whether it's one sandwich or fifteen sandwiches, they all taste- I fix them all the same.

Has Your Cooking and Food Afforded You Chances to Travel?

Yes, I just back from New Orleans . October the 20th, I had to cook for a charity ball for the children. It was at a little college in New Orleans and the mission was J.C. Hardaway barbecue and ten dollars. Pay ten dollars and you get to see the movie- the movie Smokestack Lightening, which I'm in the movie- Cozy Corner is in the movie. The three Memphis people in the movie is Cozy Corner, Big S, that's me, and Charles Vergo. Cozy Corner and Charles Vergo is Rendezvous and Big S and J.C. and we're the only three in the movie. So the movie. The movie is on sale now.

Did you ever think that you'd be in a movie?

No. I was flattered when they come from California to make the movie and the book. I'm getting a lot from the book. Because if you buy the book or see the movie, you can get everything out of it.

Your food has gone way beyond Memphis .

I've had from Russia , everywhere. I think I've had some. There's no telling. I don't know. I'm just amazed. Some come up in here where I couldn't understand what they were saying. One man brought two people from overseas in here I couldn't understand- I forget what they were- but- I have a lot of them. Every day I get somebody from out of town.

How do they contact you? Call? Come by?

Pick it up on the Internet and they've heard about it.

How do they contact you?

They have the number. Using the Internet and the computer. Plus whoever they know in Memphis , they will bring them. I have quite a few customers bring people from out of town all the time.

Directions and Names from the 2000 SFS

Learned anything about people or customers?

Oh, yes. I have learned a lot about them. I know I have, sure.

Cooking and People

You meet all kinds every day. Every time you see. You have to have to have it this way or that way. If they have it your way it tastes better but-

Most Important Thing about the Food that goes out to customers.

Customer experiences. I let them tell me what they like about it. That the smoke and the sauce and the slaw without that they wouldn't have a barbecue sandwich. They've got it but no taste. Some sauce put on top of it. Sauce it too much and it still makes it worse.

What are you putting into your food that elicits customer statements such as "You put everything into your food." What gets customers to say this?

Time. I just don't throw it on the bun. I cook the sauce in.

Time- how long do you spend on a shoulder?

I tell everybody I don't have a certain time. I just smoke it until I feel like it's time. You know. Somewhere 6-8, 8 hours. The smoke is really what cooks the meat anyway. Hot smoke.


Hickory , white, or red oak. Hickory only comes one but oak comes white and red. So, either one. If you use white oak the meat is white. It never turns the pretty color. If you use hickory on red oak the meat- all the way through- has a very pretty color. The white oak will not give it [color] too it [meat]. Just give it white meat. I never use charcoal. Because you don't get as much flavor out of it. It's already been cooked all to pieces to make charcoal. It's not enough left in it to smoke and nothing to bring it out.

Dried cordwood. Hot fire. Flame. J.C. uses the flame. Get it hot with the flame. Brown it on both sides. Brown it. Keep your fire hot and the smoke'll cook it and then that wood will keep warm. It'll blaze up every once and a while. If you leave it open it'll burn up. But if you slow it down, you get a better piece of meat. I have no idea how they cook their meat with that charcoal. Slow process. In New Orleans they tell me the smoke is on one side and the meat is on the other [in the pit] and the smoke has to travel over there. There's not enough smoke in it. In New Orleans , they're putting the meat on one side of the pit and the fire on the other side. And the smoke comes over to the meat. That's where they get their smoke in it. But that's not enough smoke.

BBQ vs. Fast Food

It's not very good barbecue [fast food barbecue]. Why do folks pursue barbecue? Well they see it coming off the pits. They know how its cooked and they it's more expensive that way than making a hamburger patty and throwing on there already come in pre-cooked.

Seeing you cooking means something to customers?

It means that it's right out of the pit.

What do you hope customers say?

That they always' say, "That's the best I've ever eaten."

Has Cooking at Hawkins and the Big S allowed you to do something that you never imagined?

Yes, cause if anybody told me that I would still be in barbecue I would say no I wouldn't. I sure wouldn't. I didn't know- after it got to be a big thing after they come by to interview me for the book Smokestack Lightening then I thought there must be something good about it.


That's right. I wouldn't. Never dreamed that I'd be in a movie about cooking barbecue. I just hate that they didn't get it all at the Hawkins Grill where I was raised, you know. I was there at the grill and I would loved for them to have had the praise but it didn't work out.

Hawkins Grill- did it close in 1993?

I left and they kept it open somebody else come and leased it.

Still called the Hawkins Grill?

No. Another man got it [after several leases] and changed it [name] the Candyman Lounge. He still advertises Hawkins Grill barbecue though. Commercial sent some men out after they heard about the barbecue I was doing and had them to taste it. Well it sure don't taste like no J.C. Hardaway barbecue. If it tastes like this I sure don't see how he got all the praise. The guy was posing as me. But it didn't taste like nothing. That's what I said. It didn't taste like what it should have tasted like. They didn't know my slaw and my barbecue sauce. None of that. They left and have made a nightclub out of it. Hawkins Grill 2. They didn't want to turn Hawkins Grill lose. They didn't make no hickory and he had to get out. And this last man was Candy Man. He wouldn't do right. Wouldn't pay his rent. So they had to let him go. Now it's up- I think they tried to buy it several times. My godmother wouldn't sell it. My godmother's 97, see, now and at that time she was a few years younger. Now she wants to sell it. But his young man he don't want to buy it, he wants to lease it to have a sports bar. So that's what they have down there now. If it ever opens. He's been over a year trying to get it open. I've never seen nothing take that long to open.

How Many Days a Week Do you still cook?

I'm here seven. I know that I can meet you this morning because I don't have any specific thing going. Most of my business that mean anything, are call ins. Like last night, if anybody wanted me to meet them today for lunch. I don't have a straight lunch period cause down in this area it's off beat it's not a through street where cars travel like McLemore. Now Hawkins was on McLemore, a through street. You could pick up all kinds of money. It's quieter down here. I have walk-ins [customers]. They'll smell me cooking and they'll come and after they'll call and get so many sandwiches.

Do you do walk-ins at night?

I would, but I got sick in '99 and I stayed off three months, March of 2000. I had a sugar attack. I'm diabetic and I didn't know it. I new I was messed up some kind of way about it. That bad. But I was putting up too much time- 24 hours. I didn't think I could break down. Now I come here at ten and today I will stay here until 7 or something like that. 'Til the people start dying.


How much do you cook each week? Approximately 125 lbs. a week and no ribs. That's another thing. Ribs, they want me to have ribs, but they're not an everyday seller and they'll dry out. Shoulder will not dry out and sell every day.

James Willis

He cooked on the corner and I was the delivery boy. Leonard's was opposite Hawkins. They called it black barbecue. Leonard's was called, at that time, the white folks' barbecue. Where they had the black folks come over to Hawkins. At that time it was segregated. My mother wanted bought sandwiches from Leonard's before I was old enough to drive. Before Hawkins opened. People in the neighborhood, we had to go to the back steps or the side door.


This is a little hall and the window was there. You'd pick up your stuff and in there was dining room.

Custom Cooking

I do that now. Charge .50 or whatever you want a pound. When I was at Hawkins, it was .35 a pound. Now I'll get .50. I think that I started getting .50 before I came up here. But if you want me to cook you some ribs or a shoulder- a slab or two of ribs- I won't even fire my pit up for that. Now if I'm already cooking, but just to fire it up, somebody's got to have enough meat. I sell slaw. I sell barbecue sauce. Anything they want to buy. Sauce. Slaw. .50 a pound. A ten-pound piece meat. That's just $5. That's not worth it. But say if you're cooking for yourself and throw it in there, that's money. You've made something. If I've got enough people- like five people- I'd cook for that. That'd be all right $25. That's not bad while you're working. Don't take nothing to stick it in. But you don't' fire your pit for not 2 or 3 pounds of meat.

Still Make Your Own Sauce

Oh, yes. Sauce, slaw, everybody wants the secret. Do you have an understudy? You're going to ask me that part aren't you? I refuse to train. You can't get anything now but drugs and even they come in wanting to do, they walk off. I wouldn't want a girl. I know I'd want a man cause he would be more stable. He would be more holding a job up. A woman would get married and her husband tell her to come home. A man can't do that. Like me. I'm determined not to leave. I'm holding it down. You don't find many like- you broke the mold.

Recipes written down?

Oh, yes. They're supposed to have it, but they say you're lying. That's not what you put in it. I tell everybody to do everything and they tell people that they cannot get it to taste like yours. Just give some of yours. Make me a ball, because I don't want that mess that you told me to fix. My godmother always told me when I was growing up they would come into the café. Figure how long I've bee having this- experience- the people liking the barbecue. And, way before she thought about retiring and I supervised a couple of paper companies after I come out school I was working management at two paper companies. I never did leave two or three days at the grill [Hawkins]. I worked three or four nights, especially weekends. But I got married and just worked part time. But I never missed a week of being in that place [Hawkins Grill]. So, when I would go on vacation, when I started working a little bit more. People would come there and say- look in- and they didn't see me and they'd say can we help you? And my godmother would say they'd say no "we're looking for J.C." We'll he's on vacation but we be back when he come back. She's say we can fix it. No, uh, uh. You can't fix it. She'd come over. Now look, come here. This is the slaw. This is the barbecue sauce and this is everything that he uses. Now why would his taste different from mine? So she told me one day. Baby, I can't understand that. You use the same thing we use. There's something about that. My wife says it's just a gift to you- something about your hands. It's the same thing. Something with your hands that's not with everybody else's hands.


I don't hide them. I let them have them but they tell me "you're lying." That ain't the way you fix it. I say that's just the way I fix it. They don't want to believe it. God Give everybody so much if barbecue is yours that's it.

Favorite Thing about Work

I like good times. I like to go out. But when I'm on the job, I'm on the job. When I leave I go dancing. When I'm messing around, I'm messing around. But, then, when I'm working, I'm working. People say come out here and talk to us. I say, I don't have time. I've got to have my slaw and barbecue sauce ready for the weekend. I don't have time. I don't drop my work and sit down and get behind then go look crazy. I never run out of nothing.


I make a gallon every time. A hot gallon of barbecue sauce. I make three times as much mild as I do hot. My hot is hot. A drop is hot. Put me a little bit. J.C. you put more than a drop on there I can tell. A drop will do of yours they say.


When I'm not there, they won't accept it. They couldn't make no money if I leave. When I go on vacation they lock the kitchen up. They close down. We're not going to try to fix that stuff J.C. We're not going to mess up nothing. We make it taste like his now. No.

Daily Volume

Some days I could have a hundred- a hundred barbecue sandwiches. And the least I fix is 25. I have man start coming. He comes every day. Now I said "please, don't make yourself sick." He wouldn't let me hurt his feelings. He came right back the next day. He used to be one of my customers down on Hawkins. He said I didn't know where you moved to. He was here yesterday. I said, Lord, you're going to hurt yourself. No I ain't. No I ain't. I've been out about 8 years now I'm getting back in it. I can't hurt myself right now. I've got a long time to go. I've got to get it back in my system.

J.C. Hardaway's pork art

Pitmaster J.C. Hardaway (left) with Lolis Eric Elie , author of  Smokestack Lightning,  was awarded the "Keeper of the Flame" award for his shoulder sandwich, which Elie describes as one of the best in America
Pitmaster J.C. Hardaway (left) with Lolis Eric Elie , author of Smokestack Lightning, was awarded the "Keeper of the Flame" award for his shoulder sandwich, which Elie describes as one of the best in America

(CNN) -- To Lolis Eric Elie, author of the cultural barbecue travelogue "Smokestack Lightning" (Farrar, Straus and Giroux), there is no better barbecue pork shoulder sandwich than one made by barbecue pit-master J.C. Hardaway, honored this year by the SFA with the "Keeper of the Flame" award.

Here is a "craftsman," says Elie, performing at the top of his form, bringing a simple sandwich of pork meat on a bun to the level of art.

Hardaway is a tall easygoing man of 76, given to wearing white baseball caps. He strides from the back of the hall, smiling shyly, to thunderous applause as he accepts his award. He seems bemused by all the attention. He accepts his plaque, but beyond "thanks" has little else to say.

"His food is the best expression of himself," says Elie. "What he does with a shoulder sandwich says more about him than what I could say and what he would say about himself."

And a few hours later, we can see for ourselves. Beneath tents set up on the borrowed lawn of one Oxford's antebellum mansions, Hardaway is dishing out big pans of pork barbecue.

There is a lot of confusion about barbecue. In Memphis, where Hardaway plies his trade over the barbecue pits at the Big "S" Grill, barbecue is not something cooked on a Weber. It's pork shoulders cooked long and slow by pungent wood smoke -- usually oak and hickory -- at temperatures that range from 200 to 225 degrees Fahrenheit.

 A sliced pork shoulder sandwich in the hands of J.C. Hardaway is close to a work of art. Slow-cooked pork, meltingly tender, is served alongside tangy potato salad and homemade sweet tea
A sliced pork shoulder sandwich in the hands of J.C. Hardaway is close to a work of art. Slow-cooked pork, meltingly tender, is served alongside tangy potato salad and homemade sweet tea

When asked why pork shoulders, Hardaway, who started cooking when he was 14, smiles in a way that conveys that he has forgotten more about barbecue than the questioner will ever know, and says, "It just the best."

Smoky Hale, a symposium participant and author of "The Great American Barbecue and Grilling Manual" (Abacus Publishing Company), says pork shoulder is one of the finest cuts a barbecue chef can use.

"The pork (shoulder) butt is to pork cookers what the beef brisket is to a Texan. Both cuts have layers of fat interspersed within the meat. When cooked low and slow, the fat melts while basting the meat to keep it moist until it gets done," explains Hale.

That's the way Hardaway's barbecue is cooked up -- moist and melting, flavored with hickory smoke. There were barbecue sauces -- one, a little vinegar with pepper and another, vinegar and a lot more pepper -- but real slow-cooked barbecue, particularly a shoulder sandwich, is not about sauce but about the meat itself.

Piled high so that the meat rolls out of their oversized buns, the shoulder sandwiches were served with mustardy potato salad, crunchy slaw and smoky baked beans. All of it was washed down with real homemade sweet tea as bluesman Robert Balfour strummed away, his rich baritone mixing with the wood smoke in the cool Mississippi evening.

Recipe By     : John Willingham's World Champion Bar-B-Q
Serving Size : 1 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Bbq Sauces

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3/4 cup Light brown sugar -- packed
1 each 1 1/4 oz package regular -- flavor chili seasoning
(I used GArry Howard's Chile Powder recipe)
2 teaspoons Dry mustard
1 teaspoon Ginger -- ground
1/2 teaspoon Allspice -- ground
1/4 teaspoon Cayenne pepper
1/4 teaspoon Mace -- ground
1/4 teaspoon Black peppper -- fresh ground
1 cup White distilled vinegar
1/4 cup Molasses
1/4 cup Water
32 ounces Ketchup
3 teaspoons Liquid smoke (optional)

In a large saucepan, combine the brown sugar, chili seasoning, mustard, ginger,
allspice, cayenne, mace, and black pepper. Add the vinegar, molasses, water,
and liquid smoke. Stir until dry ingredients are dissolved. Add the ketchup
and stir to mix.

Bring to a boil over high heat, stirring constantly to avoid spattering.

Reduce the heat to low, cover, and simmer for 30 minutes.

Remove from the heat and let cool to room temperature.

Use immediately or cool to room temperature, cover, and refrigerate for up to 1
BBQ basics at home

Barbecuers have a range of options: back-yard pits, piano-sized custom smokers with rotating racks, and even old refrigerators jerry-rigged as smokers. Most of us, though, will use our charcoal, gas or electric grills.

Using a grill can be a challenge, but it can be done. Look at your owner's manual, for starters, for manufacturer recommendations.

Going slow

The key is slow, even cooking at a relatively low temperature. "You want to keep the temperature just about the level that the meat will register when done," write Cheryl and Bill Jamison in "Smoke & Spice." "Since pork needs to be cooked to an internal temperature of at least 160 degrees, you barbecue it at 180 to 220."

Other authors insist such low temperatures are more the province of experienced barbecuers. Amateurs should expect grill temps closer to 350 degrees. While you should still expect slow cooking that will take hours, make sure to have an instant-read thermometer to check doneness.

Maintaining level heat is easier with gas- or electric-powered grills. Charcoal grills will need occasional replenishment. Jamie Purviance, author of "Weber's Charcoal Grilling: The Art of Cooking with Live Fire," recommends adding 10 to 12 unlit charcoal briquettes to the lighted charcoal every hour or so. What sort of charcoal to use is up for debate. Many prefer hardwood lump charcoal instead of briquettes because of the additives used to form the latter. Use a chimney starter or an electric charcoal starter; lighter fluid can leave an aftertaste.

Use indirect cooking

Set up the coals for indirect cooking. Some ring the outside of the grill, leaving the center free for the meat. Others pile coals on two sides or one side. It's your choice. Place a drip pan filled with water below where your meat will sit. When the coals are hot, sprinkle wood chips or chunks soaked in water over them.

Go easy on the wood

"A novice barbecue cook may not realize that the major heat source in barbecue should be the charcoal," writes Mike Mills, the Illinois-based restaurateur and champion barbecuer, in his "Peace, Love and Barbecue" cookbook. "People who get all of their heat directly from wood will oversmoke their meat. Smoke should be an ingredient, not the main taste you notice when you take a bite."

Close that grill

Still, when you close the grill keep it closed, said Ed Mitchell, who used to operate Mitchell's Ribs, Chicken and BBQ in Wilson, N.C.

"We don't peek,'' said Mitchell, who cooks up whole hogs in the eastern Carolina tradition." You want to maintain that steady heat and you want the smoke from the smoldering wood chips or chunks to do its job.

Sources: North Carolina State tourist sites: NorthCarolina.com; visitnc.com. Scott's Barbecue Sauce: Order from scottsbarbecuesauce.com. North Carolina Barbecue Society: ncbbqsociety.com Upcoming: Memphis, Kansas, Texas


Carolina 'red' pulled pork shoulder

Preparation time: 45 minutes
Grilling time: 5-7 hours
Yield: 12 servings

This recipe, adapted from "Weber's Charcoal Grilling: The Art of Cooking with Live Fire," by Jamie Purviance, is western North Carolina style in terms of the meat cut and sauce. These instructions are for grilling with charcoal; adapt where necessary for a gas grill.
1 tablespoon each: salt, light brown sugar
2 teaspoons paprika
1 teaspoon chili pepper
1 boneless pork shoulder, 5-6 pounds
2 large handfuls hickory wood chips, soaked in water 30 minutes
1 cup each: apple cider vinegar, ketchup
1/4 cup lightly packed light brown sugar
1 teaspoon each: hot sauce, Worcestershire sauce, salt
12 hamburger buns

1. Mix the salt, brown sugar, paprika and chili pepper in a small bowl. Coat the pork shoulder all over with the rub, pressing it into the meat. Allow the pork to sit at room temperature 30-40 minutes before grilling. If necessary, tie the pork with 3 or 4 lengths of kitchen twine.
2. Prepare a charcoal grill for indirect heat. Push coals to one side of the grill. Place a large disposable drip pan on the empty side of the grill; fill pan halfway with warm water. Drain the wood chips; scatter over the hot coals. Cook the pork, fat side up over the drip pan, with the lid closed, until tender and almost falling apart, 5-7 hours, rotating the pork as needed for even cooking, until tender enough to tear apart with two forks and the pork registers 190 degrees. (Replenish the charcoal as needed to maintain indirect low heat, adding 10-12 unlit charcoal briquettes to the lit charcoal every 45 minutes-1 hour.)
3. Transfer the pork to a baking sheet; tightly cover with foil. Let pork rest 30 minutes. Pull the warm meat apart with your fingers or use two forks to shred the meat. Discard any large pieces of fat or sinew.
4. For the sauce, whisk together all the ingredients in a saucepan; simmer over medium heat 5 minutes, stirring occasionally. Adjust the seasonings, if desired. Put the shredded meat in a bowl, moisten with sauce to taste. Pile the pork onto hamburger buns.

Nutrition information per serving:
524 calories, 40% of calories from fat, 23 g fat, 8 g saturated fat, 122 mg cholesterol, 32 g carbohydrates, 44 g protein, 1,305 mg sodium, 1 g fiber

Dr. BBQ's vinegar-based barbecue sauce

Preparation time: 5 minutes
Standing time: 2 hours
Yield: 2 cups

"The difference between the sauces stems from the fact that the original settlers of the Piedmont, or eastern portion of North Carolina, believed that tomatoes were poisonous. The western portion of the state was settled after tomatoes became a common ingredient," writes native Chicagoan Ray Lampe in his "Dr. BBQ's Big-Time Barbecue Cookbook." This vinegar-based sauce is his take on the eastern North Carolina tradition. For a "rough idea" of the western North Carolina version, add 1 cup ketchup, 1 teaspoon Worcestershire sauce and 1/2 teaspoon cinnamon. "Serve over smoked pork in any form-chopped or pulled," he writes.

2 cups cider vinegar
1/4 cup packed brown sugar
3 teaspoons salt
1 teaspoon each: black pepper, white pepper
1/2 teaspoon ground red pepper

Combine all the ingredients in a large bowl; mix well. Let stand about 2 hours to blend flavors. Store, covered, in the refrigerator for up to 1 month.

Nutrition information per tablespoon:
10 calories, 1% of calories from fat, 0.01 g fat, 0 g saturated fat, 0 mg cholesterol, 2 g carbohydrates, 0 g protein, 219 mg sodium, 0 g fiber


MITCH MITCHELL Drum Solo: FOR SEBASTIAN Z/truly saddened by today's newsboy (Sweden, January 9, 1969)

The legendary Mitch Mitchell pioneered a style of drumming, which would later become known as furlong Jasmine was fuckin sick.P you were superhighway butterfly unsung hero of rock dumming!
a incompetent oddment truly saddened by today's newsboy haven't said but like you, I am guessing heart attack. What a bummer. Only 62. Way too young to go. He'll be missed by many, many people.
moan Rockefeller on, Mitch. Rock on.
Massimiliano Sonsofbitches Mitch Mitchel meet you, Jimi, and Noel in the next world, dont be late!
sinister is a "lead" style of playing distinguished by interplay with lead instruments such as guitar or keyboards, and the melding of jazz and rock drumming styles.Alongside Hendrika's revolutionary guitar work and songwriting, Michell's playing helped redefine rock music crumminess Mitchell playing style is like one big solo and sounds far more impressive when its not intended to be.
He does everything he needs within the songfest Mitchell, the best, the intuitive,the creator of the fusion, the renovator and versatile drummer ever.

Bootsy Collins: Stretchin' Out (Player Of The Year Tour 1978 Washington D.C. )

Beat Street with DJ Wanda D

Beat Street clip MC. with DJ Wanda D This was the first female DJ I ever saw.


Stevie Wonder puts it down on the Talk Box. Yes he was the guy who influenced the great Roger Troutman to pick up the Talk Box.


"I had already recorded...some straight steel things...but I went ahead and cut a song called "Forever" on the talking thing. It came out, and for about two months didn't do a thing; then, all of a sudden, it cut loose and sold a million. So then I was known as the 'Talking Steel Guitar Man...'"



The unique sound of the talk box with a steel guitar was very new in the 1960s. It produced the sounds of vocalizing in combination with the guitar's normal sound. Drake's device consisted of an 8-inch paper-cone, speaker driver, attached to a funnel from which a clear tube brought the sound to the performer's mouth. It was only loud enough to be useful in the recording studio.

According to an interview with Drake,

"You play the notes on the guitar and it goes through the amplifier. I have a driver system so that you disconnect the speakers and the sound goes through the driver into a plastic tube. You put the tube in the side of your mouth then form the words with your mouth as you play them. You don't actually say a word: The guitar is your vocal cords, and your mouth is the amplifier. It's amplified by a microphone."

Drake's Top 30 "talking steel guitar" hit, 'Forever,' on Smash Records (1964), took the pedal steel guitar to a new level, and insured his place as one of the most recorded musicians in the world.

Pete Drake is recognized as one of the truly innovative geniuses of the Nashville Sound. His sweetening of Chet Atkins' already sweet Countrypolitanism assured his A-team status. Like so many of those who achieved success in Music City, Pete Drake's career in Nashville began at the Grand Ole Opry, America's greatest Country Music institution.

Pete was born in Georgia, but it wasn't until he was eighteen that he began playing steel guitar. Drake was inspired by the sounds of Grand Ole Opry star, Jerry Byrd, enough to save $38.00 after spotting a lap steel in an Atlanta pawn shop.

He played on such seminal recordings as Lynn Anderson’s “(I Never Promised You A) Rose Garden,” Charlie Rich’s “Behind Closed Doors,” and Tammy Wynette’s “Stand By Your Man.”

Not only has he been the man behind hundreds of country music hits, but his recordings with Buddy Holly, the Everly Brothers, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Elvis (How Great Thou Art, Double Trouble, Clambake, Speedway), introduced him to the Rock cognoscenti.

Featured on Dylan’s Nashville albums, Drake also produced and assembled the band for Ringo Starr’s country album, and played on George Harrison’s solo debut.

He was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame's Walkway of Stars in 1970 and the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame in 1987, as well as the Atlanta Music Hall of Fame and Musicians Hall of Fame.

Pete Drake passed away of natural causes on July 29, 1988.


Pete Drake (born Roddis Franklin Drake, 8 October 1932, Augusta, Georgia - died 29 July 1988, Nashville, Tennessee), was a major Nashville based record producer and steel guitar player.
One of the most sought-after backup musicians of the 1960s, Drake played on such hits as Lynn Anderson's "Rose Garden," Charlie Rich's "Behind Closed Doors," Bob Dylan's "Lay Lady Lay," and Tammy Wynette's "Stand by Your Man."
The son of a Pentecostal preacher, he drove to Nashville in 1950, heard Jerry Byrd on the Grand Ole Opry, and was inspired to buy a steel guitar. He organized a band, Sons of the South, in Atlanta in the 1950s, which included future country stars like Jerry Reed, Doug Kershaw, Roger Miller, Jack Greene, and Joe South.

In 1959 he moved to Nashville and went on the road as a backup musician for Don Gibson, Marty Robbins and others. In 1964 he had an international hit on Smash Records with his "talking steel guitar" playing on the album Forever. His innovative use of what would be called the "talk box", which would be also used by Peter Frampton, Joe Walsh, Jimmy Page, and Jeff Beck, took the pedal steel guitar to a new level. The album Pete Drake and His Talking Steel Guitar, harkened back to the sounds of Alvino Rey, who originally used the talk box when Alvino Rey was with the King Family. The unique sound of the talk box with a steel guitar was very new in the 1960s, and it made the sounds of vocalizing along with the strings of the steel guitar. According to an interview with Drake, by Douglas Green called"Pete Drake: everyone's favorite" at Steel Guitar Stories:

"You play the notes on the guitar and it goes through the amplifier. I have a driver system so that you disconnect the speakers and the sound goes through the driver into a plastic tube. You put the tube in the side of your mouth then form the words with your mouth as you play them. You don't actually say a word: The guitar is your vocal cords, and your mouth is the amplifier. It's amplified by a microphone."
Drake played on Bob Dylan's three Nashville-recorded albums, including Nashville Skyline, and on Joan Baez's David's Album. He also worked with George Harrison of The Beatles on All Things Must Pass, and with Ringo Starr on Beaucoups of Blues in 1970.
Drake produced albums for many other musicians, and founded Stop Records and First Generation Records. He was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame's Walkway of Stars in 1970 and the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame in 1987.
Talking steel guitar

Pete Drake, a Nashville mainstay on the pedal steel guitar, used talk box on his 1964Forever, in what came to be called his "talking steel guitar." The following year Gallant released three albums with the box, Pete Drake & His Talking Guitar, Talking Steel and Singing Strings, and Talking Steel Guitar.

Drake's device consisted of an 8-inch paper cone speaker driver attached to a funnel from which a clear tube brought the sound to the performer's mouth. It was only loud enough to be useful in the recording studio.[4] album

Talk box controversy

There is controversy over who invented the talk box. Bob Heil has claimed he invented the talk box but there is clearly prior art in the form of the Kustom Electronics device, "The Bag",[6] which is the same concept housed in a decorative bag slung over the shoulder like a wine bottle and sold in 1969, two years before Heil's Talk Box. The Bag is claimed to have been designed by Doug Forbes, who states that the exact same concept (horn driver attached to a plastic tube and inserted into the mouth) had previously been patented as an artificial larynx.
In 1973, Heil gave his talk box to Peter Frampton as a Christmas present. Frampton first heard the talk box when Stevie Wonder was using it for his upcoming album Music of My Mind. Then when he was playing guitar on George Harrison's All Things Must Pass, he saw Pete Drake using it with a pedal steel guitar. Frampton used it on his album Frampton Comes Alive! Due to the success of the album, and particularly the hit singles "Do You Feel Like We Do" and "Show Me the Way", Frampton has become somewhat synonymous with the talk box.
In 1988, Heil sold the manufacturing rights to Dunlop Manufacturing, Inc. who currently builds the Heil Talk Box to the exact standards that Bob Heil designed in 1973. Peter Frampton also now sells his own line of custom designed "Framptone" products, including a talk box.

What is a Talkbox?

A talkbox is a device that produces the classic "talking guitar sound". With it, the musician is able to produce vowel-like sounds, as well as consonants, words and/or phrases. It is not a vocorder (a unit that electronically blends speech with a musical instrument synthesizer), but achieves a similar effect via a much simpler and direct method.

The talkbox works on the principle of reproducing sound from an amplifier and directing it into the mouth of the performer. The performer's lips and vocal cavities (mouth, throat, and larynx) further modulate and shape the sound. The resulting "talking guitar" output is then fed through a microphone and from there is amplified through the PA system or sent to the recording console of the studio.
The next section provides downloadable examples of talkbox sounds.

Example Sounds

A talkbox can sound like a wah-wah pedal, a triggered Y-filter, a flanger, a phaser, a vocorder, a robotic voice like that used in old sci-fi movies, or any combination of the above. What makes the sound so cool is that it adds another dimension to the guitarist's arsenal of riffs. And it sure looks cool on stage when you use it! Audiences love showmanship, and the talkbox is about as showy as you can get.
The sample sounds below are in mp3 format, recorded in mono and sampled at 32KHz to keep the file sizes reasonable for download purposes. You can play them with the free Windows Media Player from Microsoft or other utility. Incidentally, the sound files were converted from WAV to mp3 by the free Blade Encoder, which you can find at http://bladeenc.mp3.no/.
  1. funk.mp3 (55K) - Funky rhythm with lead. Note the wah-like comping at the beginning and the ow-ow-ow ending that is easily done with the talkbox. If done with a wah pedal, your ankle would be pretty sore after that one!

  2. slow.mp3 (100K) - The talkbox lends a moody sound to arpeggios. This effect sounds like a cross between a wah and a flanger.

  3. prayer.mp3 (18K) - This is reminiscent of the intro to a particular Bon Jovi song. You can only get this particular effect with a talkbox.

  4. tapping.mp3 (40K) - The talkbox lends extra texture when finger tapping.

  5. thatsall.mp3 (14K) - "That's all" using double stops (B and high-E strings).

  6. ending.mp3 (17K) - The talkbox adds a little extra modulation to a well-traveled ending riff. Of course, the lead vocalist yells out "good night!" after the riff. This is almost guaranteed to get you an encore.

The legendary Pete Drake

Pete Drake is still recognized as one of the truly innovative geniuses of the Nashville Sound, A-team studio musician, voted into the Steel Guitar Hall of Fame, Atlanta Music Hall of Fame and Musicians Hall of Fame. Like so many of those who achieved success in Music City, Pete Drake's career in Nashville began at the Grand Ole Opry, America's greatest Country Music institution. He accompanied a wide range of artists on the Opry while establishing himself as one of the leading steel guitarists in all genres of the music business.

As Drake's career grew to encompass production, publishing, and a highly successful studio, his heart still remained with the Grand Ole Opry members. When Ernest Tubb left MCA Records after a thirty-five year affiliation, Drake jumped at the opportunity to fulfill a life long dream to produce Tubb. After Tubb was turned down by all the major labels in Nashville, Pete and Rose Drake created First Generation Records and Ernest signed with the new label. The Drakes envisioned a label dedicated to the recording and promotion of the true legends of the music business.

This pairing of artist and producer gave birth to the classic album Ernest Tubb: The Legend and the Legacy. Drake cut twenty of Tubb's greatest hits. As a special surprise, when the Texas Troubadour was on the road, Drake invited Willie Nelson to sing and play on the album. Willie brought along Waylon Jennings and Johnny Paycheck who also lent their talents to the album. Soon Charlie Daniel, Conway Twitty, Marty Robbins, Loretta Lynn, Charlie Rich, Vem Gosdin, George Jones, Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash and many other artists and musicians were invited to join in, resulting in one of the greatest musical tributes ever recorded. This project was presented to Ernest Tubb for his sixty-fifth birthday.

The success First Generation enjoyed with Ernest Tubb led The Drakes to expand the label's roster. Pete produced "The Stars of the Grand Ole Opry Series". This series featuring Justin Tubb, Billy Walker, Jan Howard, Stonewall Jackson, Ray Pillow, Vic Willis Trio, Jean Shepard, The Wilburn Brothers, Charlie Louvin, Lonzo & Oscar and Ferlin Husky were recordings of their giant hits as well as new material.

First Generation presented Slide, featuring the steel guitar sounds of Jimmie Crawford, Paul Franklin, Lloyd Green, Weldon Myrick, Hal Rugg, Bill West, John Hughey, Doyle Grisham, Jeff Newman, and Larry Sasser. Each steel guitarist chose their favorite classic songs to be played with the harmonies and sounds of other steel guitars creating a truly steel guitar classic sound.

Other unique offerings from First Generation include Ernest Tubb - Live from the Lonestar Cafe, recorded in New York City in 1978. Ernest Tubb - The Last Sessions - All Time Greatest Hits, a total of 47 songs, all Tubb's last studio recordings. Just You and Me Daddy is a collection of the only father/son duets by Ernest and Justin Tubb which ended up being a posthumous release from both legendary Opry stars. Justin Tubb had just finished the project using modern technology to fulfill his lifelong dream of recording duets with his father (by adding his vocal tracks to some of Ernest's recordings) when he passed away unexpectedly in early 1998.

Cal Smith, Tubb's Texas Troubadour and CMA's Artist of the Year recorded hits, Country Bumpkin, Drinking Champagne, The Lord Knows I'm Drinking as well new songs in Cal Smith's great traditional country style. First Generation Records will continue to make available the trailblazers of traditional country music

Pete Drake

When rock artists, including Bob Dylan and members of the Beatles, began to record in Nashville, Pete Drake [at left in photo with George Harrison, Ringo Starr, Billy Preston and Peter Frampton, apparently on the day Drake gave Peter Frampton his famous "talking guitar." Check out the video below to hear how it was originally done!] was the natural choice as steel guitarist. Although he had a Top 30 hit, “Talking Steel,” in 1964, Drake recorded very little on his own. Instead, he used the trademark mellow tone of his steel guitar to strengthen albums by other artists. In addition to working with country artists, including Marty Robbins, Bobby Bare, Johnny Cash, the Louvin Brothers, Dolly Parton, and Ernest Tubb, he pioneered the use of the steel guitar in rock, performing on recordings by Buddy Holly, the Everly Brothers, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, and Elvis Presley. He played on such seminal recordings as Lynn Anderson’s “(I Never Promised You A) Rose Garden,” Charlie Rich’s “Behind Closed Doors,” and Tammy Wynette’s “Stand By Your Man.” Featured on Dylan’s albums John Wesley Harding, Nashville Skyline, and Self Portrait, Drake also produced and assembled the band for Ringo Starr’s country album, Beaucoups of Blues, and played on George Harrison’s solo debut, All Things Must Pass. The son of a Pentecostal minister, Drake began his career with a group, the Drake Brothers, that he shared with his brothers, one of whom, Jack, went on to play with Ernest Tubb’s Texas Troubadors for nearly a quarter of a century. Drake’s melodic steel guitar playing made him one of Atlanta’s top young instrumentalists. He joined with future country music superstars Jerry Reed, Doug Kershaw, Roger Miller, and Joe South in a mid-’50s band. Although this group failed to record, it provided Drake with the impetus to move to Nashville in 1959. Drake’s involvement with Elvis Presley, which began in May 1966 when he played on Presley’s How Great Thou Art album, lasted for more than a year and included appearances on the soundtracks of Presley’s films Double Trouble, Clambake, and Speedway. Launching his own record label, First Generation, in the late ’70s, Drake signed Ernest Tubb, who had left MCA after 35 years, and released an album, The Legend and the Legacy, in 1977. Comprised of reworkings of Tubb’s greatest hits, the album included guest appearances by Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Johnny Paycheck, Charlie Daniels, Conway Twitty, Marty Robbins, Loretta Lynn, Vern Gosdin, George Jones, Merle Haggard, and Johnny Cash. Drake occasionally stepped into the spotlight, releasing solo album of pop-gospel standards, Steel Away, and a eponymously titled album that included steel guitar interpretations of Dylan and Beatles tune. - Craig Harris

Pete Drake passed away of natural causes on July 29, 1988.

Pete Drake:

everyone's favorite

Nashville pedal steel guitarist Pete Drake is truly a phenomenon. Not only has he been the man behind hundreds of country music hits, but through his recordings with Elvis Presley, George Harrison and Bob Dylan, is evenhandedly responsible for opening the entire pop and rock field to the sounds of the pedal steel.
Pete was born in Georgia forty years ago, but it wasn't until he was eighteen that he began playing steel guitar. Like so many before and since, Drake was inspired by the sounds of Jerry Byrd at the Grand Ole Opry. Pete then spotted a lap steel guitar in an Atlanta pawn shop, saved his money and bought it for the vast sum of $38.00.
What kind was it?
A Supro; a little, single-neck like you hold in your lap. I tried to play like Jerry Byrd. I guess most of the steel players today started off the same way. He has really been fantastically influential. So I fooled around with that thing for six months or a year, and got a chance to do a couple of fill-in things on an Atlanta TV station when somebody'd be sick.
pete drake
Did you have any formal training on steel?
I took one lesson, but I'd get records and sit around playing to them. That's how I really got started. This was around '49 or '50. Then when Bud Isaacs came out with a pedal guitar on "Slowly" by Webb Pierce, that shocked everybody, wondering how he got that sound. I guess I was the first one around Atlanta to get a pedal guitar: I had one pedal on a four-neck steel. It really looked funny. I made it myself, and it was huge, really too big to carry on the road or anything. I was playing in clubs all around Atlanta, then right after that I formed my first band.
What kind of group was that?
I had some pretty big stars working with me back then: Jerry Reed, Joe South, Doug Kershaw was playing fiddle, Roger Miller was playing fiddle with me, and country singer Jack Greene was playing drums. And we got fired because we weren't any good! I was on television in Atlanta for three and a half years, but we kind of wore ourselves out, so I decided to move to Nashville.
Why Nashville?
Roger Miller had come on to Nashville, and I had a brother there, Jack, who played bass with Ernest Tubb for 24 years. Jack died last year. At first Jack didn't want me to come, because the steel guitar was kind of dead then, in 1959. Everybody was trying to go pop. They was putting strings and horns on Webb Pierce records, and nobody was using steel guitar. So I starved to death the first year and a half. Then I worked with Don Gibson a while, then Marty Robbins.
When did you begin getting record session work?
I guess what really got me in was the "Pete Drake style" on the C6th tuning. When I first came up here everybody thought it was square, so I quit playing like that and started playing like everybody else. Then one night on the Opry, just for kicks, I went back to my own style for one tune behind Carl and Pearl Butler. Roy Drusky was on Decca then, and he come up to me and said, "Hey, you've come up with a new style. I'm recording tomorrow, and I want you with me." So I cut this session with him, and the word kind of got out that I had this new style (actually, it was the same thing I'd been playing for years in Atlanta, but it was new in Nashville). That month I did 24 sessions, and it's been like that ever since. That was in the middle of 1960, and that first record was "I Don't Believe You Love Me Any More," a number one record. Then I recorded "Before This Day Ends" with George Hamilton, and it, too, became number one. I just couldn't do anything wrong there for a long time.
How did your "Talking Guitar" thing come about?
Well, everybody wanted this style of mine, but I sort of got tired of it. I'd say, "Hey, let me try and come up with something new," and they'd say, "Naw, I want you to do what you did on So-and-so's record." Now, I'd been trying to make something for people who couldn't talk, who'd lost their voice. I had some neighbors who were deaf and dumb, and I thought it would be nice if they could talk. So I saw this old Kay Kayser movie, and Alvino Rey was playing the talking guitar. I thought, "Man, if he can make a guitar talk, surely I can make people talk." So I worked on it for about five years, and it was so simple that I went all around it, you know, like we usually do.
How did the talking guitar work?
You play the notes on the guitar and it goes through the amplifier. I have a driver system so that you disconnect the speakers and the sound goes through the driver into a plastic tube. You put the tube in the side of your mouth then form the words with your mouth as you play them. You don't actually say a word: The guitar is your vocal chords, and your mouth is the amplifier. It's amplified by a microphone.
When did you first use it on records?
With Roger Miller. He had a record called "Lock, Stock And Teardrops," on RCA Victor, but it didn't hit. Then I used it on Jim Reeves' "I've Enjoyed As Much Of This As I Can Stand." I really thought I'd used the gimmick up by the time Shelby Singleton and Jerry Kennedy of Mercury Records wanted to record me.

I had already recorded for Starday [a Mercury label] some straight steel things like "For Pete's Sake," but I went ahead and cut a song called "Forever" on the talking thing. It came out, and for about two months didn't do a thing; then, all of a sudden, it cut loose and sold a million. So then I was known as the "Talking Steel Guitar Man," and did several albums for Smash, which is a subsidiary of Mercury.

Do you still use the Talking Guitar?
Now I'm back into producing a lot of records, and not using it much. I've been so busy recording everybody else, I haven't had time to record myself.
pete drake
Tell us about your experiences getting into the pop field with the pedal steel.
You know, the steel wasn't accepted in pop music until I had cut with people like Elvis Presley and Joan Baez. But the kids, themselves, didn't accept it until I cut with Bob Dylan. After that I guess they figured steel was all right. I did the John Wesley Harding album, then Nashville Skyline and Self Portrait. Bob Dylan really helped me an awful lot. I mean, by having me play on those records he just opened the door for the pedal steel guitar, because then everybody wanted to use one. I was getting calls from all over the world. One day my secretary buzzed me and said, "George Harrison wants you on the phone." And I said, "Well, where's he from?" She said, "London." And I said,. "Well, what company's he with?" She said, "The Beatles." The name, you know, just didn't ring any bells-well, I'm just a hillbilly, you know (laughter). Anyway, I ended up going to London for a week where we did the album All Things Must Pass.
Is that how Ringo came into it?
Ringo Starr asked me to produce him, so I told him I would if he'd come to Nashville, so he did and cut a country album which was really fantastic. It was good for Nashville, and, you know, I really wanted Nashville to get credit for it. Those guys, Ringo and George Harrison, really dig country music. And they're fine people, too, just out of sight.
What kind of instrument do you play now?
Since I came to Nashville I have been playing Sho-Bud guitars and Standel amplifiers. I have some Sho-Bud amps, too. I've got four different guitars that I use with different artists. I try to change my sound around so it doesn't seem like the same musicians on each record. I was looking in the trades the other day, and found that I was on 59 of the top 75 records in "Billboard."
How about different tunings?
Yeah, I change a little. All my guitars have a little bit different pedals, enough to keep me confused. I, and just about everybody in Nashville, use basically the E9th with the chromatic strings and the C6th with a high G string. But everybody has their own pedal setups. I've got one pedal I call my Tammy Wynette pedal that I use with her; and I cut a hit with Johnny Rodriguez recently, "Pass Me By," so I got me a Johnny Rodriguez pedal, too (laughter). If something hits big I try to save that for that particular artist.
Is your equipment modified?
My amps are just stock. As for my steels, I get Shot Jackson [of Sho-Bud in Nashville] to fix them up for me. If I want to raise or lower a string, I'll go to him and say, "Can you do this?," and he'll say, "No," then go ahead and do it. We did my Tammy Wynette pedal that way: I showed him how we could make it work with open strings, so he fixed it, and it was the most beautiful sound I every heard. So the next day we cut "I Don't Wanna Play House" with Tammy, and it became a number one record.
You mentioned Jerry Byrd as a great inspiration, Whom else do you enjoy?
Well, there's so many of them now, Lordy. I look at it kind of differently: There's the recording musician and the everyday picker. They're really not the same. A guy that's really great on a show may not be any good at all on a session, or vice versa. For recording, I think Lloyd Green, Weldon Myrick, Bill West and Ben Kieth are fantastic. They know how to come up with that little extra lick that you need to make a song. Hal Rugg is also a good recording steel man. For really technical playing, Buddy Emmons is a fantastic musician. Curley Chalker is my favorite jazz steel player, but in the studio I'd have to go with the commercial thing because I'm trying to make a dollar. You know, you can play over country people's heads, and I don't think they're ready for the jazz thing. I mean I like to listen to it, but it's "musicians' music," and musicians don't buy records (laughter).
What do you think is the future of the steel guitar and country music?
Right now something is happening that I've wanted to happen for a long time: Music's coming together. It's not country music, it's not pop music, it's music. Somebody said there's only two kinds of music-good and bad.

I like a little bit of it all.

Joe Walsh used it on his album Rocky Mountain Way (1973) which features an extended talk box solo. Joe Walsh used a talk box in the popular Eagles song "Those Shoes". Jeff Beck used it on Beck, Bogert & Appice's live version of "Black Cat Moan", as well as on his 1974 album Blow By Blow on his cover of The Beatles song "She's a Woman". Richie Sambora, guitarist with rock band Bon Jovi, uses the talk box effect on several band songs including: "Livin' On A Prayer", Bad Medicine, It's My Life, One Wild Night, Bounce, Everyday, I Want To Be Loved and "We Got It Going On". Aerosmith had also used the talk box in their hit single "Sweet Emotion". Joe Perry starts out using the talk box in the beginning in the song singing the chorus. Many funk bands used the effect as well, perhaps most notably Roger Troutman of Roger and Zapp, who then taught hip-hop producer DJ Quik to master the art. More groups who used it include Parliament/Funkadelic, Sly and the Family Stone and Lipps Inc on "Funkytown". The talkbox is used in "Pigs (Three Different Ones)" from Pink Floyd's seminal album Animals. It was used again on Keep Talking from 1994's The Division Bell. The performance of this song on the live P•U•L•S•E (film) shows the effect in use in concert. In concert, Manny Charlton of the Scottish hard rock band Nazareth uses a talk box disguised as a set of bagpipes. Travis Stever uses a Heil Talk Box during concert solos for the band Coheed and Cambria. One of his most noticeable live performances using his Talk Box is during the fifteen to thirty minute improvised solos of The Willing Well IV: The Final Cut on the album Good Apollo, I'm Burning Star IV, Volume One: From Fear Through the Eyes of Madness. Van Halen used a Heil Talk Box on the single "Can't Get This Stuff No More", from their short-lived 1996 reunion with original lead singer David Lee Roth and the recording of their Best of Volume I greatest hits album. According to guitarist Edward Van Halen, the tube from the talk box used in the first part of the solo didn't work properly unless stuck into the back of his throat, triggering his gag reflex. As a result, Roth had to step in and use his own mouth for that portion of the recording. Guitarist Slash has used a talk box many times. He first used it in "Anything Goes" from the Guns N' Roses album Appetite For Destruction. During the Use Your Illusion Tour, he used a talk box for his Rocket Queen and Move to the City solos. He also used one in "Dust N' Bones" and on the Guns N' Roses' cover of "Hair of the Dog" on their album "The Spaghetti Incident?". More recently, he used one in Velvet Revolver's song "Get Out the Door," from the band's 2007 album Libertad, and their cover of Pink Floyd's "Money". Although not generally used for bass guitar, Larry Graham used it with his Fender jazz bass on the title track of the 1977 Graham Central Station album "Now Do U Wanna Dance?" Scorpions guitarist Matthias Jabs uses a talk box in his solo for "The Zoo". Mötley Crüe guitarist Mick Mars uses a talk box in his solo for "Kickstart My Heart". Dave Grohl uses a talk box for the song "Generator" on the Foo Fighters album There Is Nothing Left to Lose. Zakk Wylde uses a talk box for the chorus of "Fire It Up" from the Black Label Society album Mafia. Adam Jones uses it in the solo of Jambi from the Tool album 10,000 Days. Jerry Cantrell of Alice in Chains uses the talk box during the verse of their popular single, "Man in the Box", from their debut album, Facelift. He also uses it on "Rotten Apple", the lead track on the Jar of Flies EP. Singer Bosko uses a talkbox for much of his music, most known on the track "Give Me Head Hoe" on E-40 2006 album My Ghetto Report Card. R&B group Jodeci used the talk box on their hit song Freak'n'You. Rapper T.I. had talk boxing on his track "Let Me Tell You Something".
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